Kevin Green | NextPoint Group

Kevin Green | NextPoint Group

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Amplified CEO with VC and serial entrepreneur, Richard Stroupe. With today's guest, Kevin Green, he's a partner and the Chief Strategy Officer of NextPoint Group, a consulting firm that provides mission-critical IT solutions and professional services for the defense, intelligence, and homeland security sectors.

He is also the co-founder of Horns and Hens Farms, specializing in Scottish Highland cattle, as well as Odysseus Holdings and Brittmoore Capital.

Kevin Green, welcome. Yeah, thank you very much. Yeah, thanks for having me. Well, thank you for taking the time to travel down from Northern Virginia here at a beautiful surf city, North Carolina. Yeah, it was, uh, it was a good drive, uh, about about six hours, but, uh, no bad weather. Yeah, we actually had some rain yesterday.

I was worried that you might, yeah, I think we got lucky. We must have, we must have missed that, was it, you said about six hours? Yeah, about six hours, yeah. [00:01:00] No, no tickets or cops, right? No, no. Thankfully no tickets or cops. Unfortunately, I got one on Sunday coming down first time in like five years, but, you know, happens.

Yeah, sure. . Well, what brought you down here? So I've known you from up north, uh, you know, in Northern Virginia. Yeah. How long have we known each other at, at least, I think 18, 20 years, right? I think so. 2005, 2006. It's probably been a solid 20 years.

Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. It's been a long time. Yeah. Yeah. And we both enjoyed each other's journey and Yeah, for sure. Building and selling companies and supporting each other in the community. It's, it's fun. Right? It is. It's, it's, it's exhilarating. That's a good way to put it. Yeah. Um, you never know what you're gonna get.

Mm-hmm. You know, like, like Forest Gump, you know? Right. Some days were better than others. Yeah, hundred percent. Um, but what brought me down here, so my family started to vacation here in 2003. And, as a, as a kid, my family always went to Carolina Beach, so we were very familiar with Wilmington Carolina Beach.

Like my [00:02:00] grandparents owned a second row beach house they bought in the seventies. I mean, it was one of these, uh. Two, two level duplex and very, very small. But it was, you know, it was, it was interesting because it really brought the family together, you know? So I was familiar with Wilmington, spent a lot of summers here between playing little League baseball and Wilmington, Carolina Beach, and it was rough, you know, back in the, the eighties, you know, it had a, had a rough little time, Carolina Beach.

But I enjoyed it. You know, I, it's where you get out there and ride your bike and get in some fights or whatever, but I mean, yeah, sure it is what it is, but just being a kid, right? Yeah. When I started TRS early, I wanted to buy a beach house because like some of the bucket listings you wanna do, and Carolina Beach was outta my price point and so was the outer banks.

And, uh, we found a little pocket here, Jacksonville, surf City. I'm like, oh, what's this place? You know? It's kind of like in between Wilmington and Jacksonville and. I had some really good reviews and, and um, [00:03:00] so we took a gamble and came down and had a vacation and we enjoyed it. Started to really get into the community and learning about the restaurants and the food and Right.

The price point really was what, what, you know, kind of like motivated us. So we bought our first house, second row house and um, vacationed there, you know, for a couple years. And then there was, uh, ocean front house that was for sale. And it was, it was a stretch. Like I had to dump all my Oracle stock and Right, right.

Sure. Liquidate, you know, some other things to even put a down payment. That's good to get stretchy, right. It is because you, you're betting on the future, right? Yeah, for sure. So we bought a ocean front house and then sold the second row house and we held that one for 14 years. Okay. Yeah. And then we ended up buying another house, but then, uh, during that time, that's when I started doing Little Ventures here in bulk.

Yeah. Loggerhead in and then eventually [00:04:00] built saltwater. That's, yeah. Well, I tell you saltwater, uh, which I really appreciate. Uh, it's really nice. Yeah. You like it. Yeah, it's awesome. It's great. Uh, I mean, I love the little downstairs area, the pool area. The rooms are really nice. . Well, the concept, well, it's been a fun project. Well, I wouldn't say fun educational for sure. Okay. All right. Uh, learned through a lot of failures. True. Now, was that a ground up or was that, was there something existing and you No, it was ground up. Oh, wow. Yeah. Okay. Alright. Yeah. I, I'm gonna take you to kind of like the back channel this afternoon.

Okay. You know, but, uh, the first one we bought was Loggerhead. That's right. That's, and that, that was, that turned into a remodel, you know, through some trials and tribulations and, um, painful. Painful rehab. Sure, sure. But, uh, learned a lot through it. But then the saltwater project was ground up. Okay. We, we, you know, built the first one at 6 0 5 and, um, that was a, a good lesson learned.

And then I figured, well, let's go do it one more time, so Sure, sure. We had the, [00:05:00] had a good, good crew together, you know, it's about the team. Yeah. And we had some, you know, some opportunity and I felt like, you know, at the time, COVID was rampant, interest rates were low. Is that when you were doing it? Mm-hmm.

Oh, wow. Yeah. That's challenging. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, the, the remodel at Loggerhead was in the middle of Covid. Okay. And, you know, that's when I decided to take those lessons learned and go out and build this other one. 'cause hey, you know, we, I guess you, you learn through trials and failure Sure. And you know what works and what doesn't work.

Right, right. So we built a product that didn't exist on the island for short term. Um, stays. Okay. Which is the, the, the kind of the suite model, you know? Yeah, yeah. 700 square feet. I mean, it's beautiful. Yeah, sure. And we, we built one as a concept and everybody just raved about it. And I'm like, oh my God, we do more of these.

So is it something you can rent nightly or is it like the Yeah, by the day, obviously weekly too. Like normal beach rentals. But you could do a nightly [00:06:00] rental. Exactly. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. And that was kind of the strategy. Yeah, for sure. As we're hedging, 'cause I, I, you, you kind of make some assumptions in the future, you know, before I decided to invest in, in that type of project, which is, there's a lot of capital outlay in the beginning.

Oh yeah, yeah. We'll get it, we'll cover that for sure. Yeah. Um, I made some assumptions, did some analysis, went back and looked at, see what the projections are gonna be for 20 30, 20 40 in this area. Okay. And figured that Pender County and Brunswick County that are kind of straddling New Hanover, Wilmington Okay.

Are gonna experience some massive growth. You know. Okay. So, so you feel like their ceiling's pretty high Yeah. In this area? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And this was before they built the bridge, so before Oh, okay. Before the bridge. So that bridge is new. The bridge is new. The one on route, the 50. Yeah. One we went.

Oh, okay. Yeah, it used to be an old swing bridge. Oh, wow. And traffic was backed up all the time. Oh, I bet you when you have to go get your groceries, you have to like really time it at certain points to go get your bridges. Imagine what a new bridge does to, uh, beach areas, right? Yeah, exactly. [00:07:00] And now, I don't know if you, if you've come in through Wilmington, uh, but they're doing a bypass around Hamstead.

Okay. So right now it takes about an hour to get to Wilmington. If you leave during rush hour, like at seven, in o'clock in the morning or six 30, and and half of that time is spent just navigating through the traffic lights in Hamstead. Ah, okay. Yeah. But they're gonna take care of that with this extension of I 40, um, um, around Okay.

As a bypass of, of Hamstead. Which not only will allow more growth coming through Hamstead, 'cause that's kind of a bed area, you know, uh, suburb of Wilmington. But, um, but yeah, you, you'll be able to get to Wilmington in like 25, 30 minutes. Oh wow. Yeah. That's a major game changer. It is, yeah. For sure. Yeah.

And there's a, I mean there's, this area's great, I mean, 'cause you got 20 minutes to Jacksonville North and 30 minutes south of Wilmington. I mean, there's just a lot, a lot to do here, but, uh, yeah. But yeah, it's, it's been an interesting ride, but yeah, I bet we'll see. [00:08:00] Well continued good luck with, uh, you know, your ventures down here 'cause Yeah.

You know, that's just, that's pretty cool. I mean, now you guys vacation in outer banks. Uh, yeah. I mean, when we go to the beach, uh, when we do get to vacation, uh, yeah. Right. Farming, uh, it makes that a little tough. But, uh, yeah, we definitely, the outer banks is the preferred beach for us, uh, with our family.

Mm-hmm. You know, over the years and stuff. Uh, is hatas. We, we went to haters 'cause we had a family friend and their families and we would go with them. And then Kitty Hawk is really where we had a place Okay. For a few years and Yeah. Uh, four hours, door to door, you know, so that, that was pretty, pretty easy drive.

That's not bad. Yeah. All in all, I mean, just to be able to get away, it was close enough to be able to do weekend trips for sure. And Right. And, you know, I, I don't mind driving, so it's four hours is really nothing. Um, but yeah, outer Banks is definitely where we, you know, we, uh, vacationed a lot. I spent a lot of time in Galveston too.

That was probably the beach I grew up mm-hmm. Around. Mm-hmm. Was down in, uh, the Galveston area, but, uh, you're from that area [00:09:00] originally, right? Yeah. From Houston. Yeah. Yeah, from, uh, Texas originally. So now you're into farming. Yeah. Yeah. The, uh, tell me about that. Yeah, so I, you know, talk about our, this was our Covid, uh, plan.

Yes. Yeah. Whether we, whether we expect to, to do this or not. But, uh, you know, we've been, I've been in Northern Virginia now for. Uh, probably over 25 years. And you, we lived in a, a lot of places with some land and acreage and, you know, kind of worked our way up from like one and a half to then 10 acres.

And then at one point we had another property kind of at 20 and, and you know, COVID happened and, um, I think we just decided to take the plunge and, you know, let's just go full bore farm. And so we bought our first farm. It was about, it's an 84 acre farm. Mm-hmm. And, uh, you know, we're raising cattle and chickens and bailing hay, you know, uh, mending fences and doing all that fun stuff.

Right. Um, so yeah, so I mean, I, you know, I really enjoy it. Don I ever told you I grew up kind of on a farm. Yeah, yeah. I think it was a gentleman's farm and we had horses and cows. Right. [00:10:00] Couple chickens and Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I call it the, the hobby farm on steroids. Correct. You, yeah. Your operation seems a lot more, uh, more sophisticated than what, what my dad had.

Well, I dunno if it's sophisticated, but we're definitely getting better. We've definitely learned a lot, um, right. Definitely from day one and, uh. With all the animals and stuff like that. And, and again, just taking care of that. And we're up to about 240 acres now. Mm-hmm. Um, and so this is near Middleburg, Virginia.

Yeah. Middleburg, uh, Plains. The Plains, which is the same thing. Plains Marshall. Middleburg. That's a horse country. Horse country. But actually there's a lot of cattle. Yeah. Fawer County's got a ton of cattle. Mm-hmm. Uh, but yeah, definitely, I mean, horse country as well. Mm-hmm. And we raise, uh, Scottish Highland.

So they're the ones with the horns and the Right, yeah. And the long hair. Right. So they're real cute and, and fuzzy and stuff. Yeah. When I, um, when I'm traveling down here, I, I go. On Route 50. Mm-hmm. It hit 15. Yeah, sure. That roundabout area. There's some of those Scottish cattle. Yeah. Over on the left. [00:11:00] Yeah.

Yeah. I always think about you. I'm like, is that Kevin's, that's another actually Lazy Hill. That's another, uh, operation. Uh Right. You know, we know the owners, uh, you know, stuff. So Yeah. They, they keep all their cows kind of right there at Gilbert's Corner. Yes. Right there at 15 and 15 Gilbert's Corner.

Right now, Scottish, Scottish Islands have gotten pretty popular, you know, the last few years now are, do you raise 'em for, for beef or, um, uh, beef and breeding. Okay. Uh, we've been mainly beef this last year, you know, 'cause it takes time. Mm-hmm. Things have to grow. Right. So our breeding program is really where, you know, we're focused moving forward.

And this is probably the first year, especially with a registered, you know, 'cause we have unregistered and we have registered cows. Mm-hmm. Uh, this will be the first year that I think we'll actually really be able to. To sell some of our, uh, our, our cattle mm-hmm. For our breeding program. Mm-hmm. But it's a mix, right?

I mean, uh, you also gotta have multiple outlets, right. You know, multiple profit centers. Yes. Uh, so the breeding program is good. It's definitely, uh, better. Mm-hmm. But then when you have a steer or you have, you know, other things like that, uh, cows like that, then, you know, that's definitely for beef [00:12:00] Right.

And stuff. What, what motivated you? 'cause I mean, your background, you're all over the place. You're, you're, you know Yeah. Former military, you're really, you know, kind of a technology systems software guy. Yeah. And we'll get into that, but like, what motivated you to kind of start down the farming route? Well, I think, you know, it's, uh, uh, being from Texas, you know, we're, we're been around that culture kind of my whole life.

Mm-hmm. Um, and you know, my family was around it. And, you know, again, even, you know, and I was from Houston. Mm-hmm. Uh, my high school years, we moved out to the country. So I got kind of the best of both worlds. Right. Which was great exposure. And we can, we can get into sort of, you know, being young and being exposed to as much as you possibly can, as quick as you can is probably a good thing.

Mm-hmm. You know, especially in your twenties. And so I think just being around that, uh, loving that culture, um, you know, my uncle had cattle, cattle as well and, you know, we had, uh, small chunks of land. You know, I grew up on like seven acres during those high school years, and then we had 25 and mm-hmm. So, you know, kind of got a taste [00:13:00] of it.

Um, and I think just growing up, you know, my mom always told me, if you have land, you have options. Right. And, uh, that always kind of stuck with me. And so, you know, there's something to be said about self-sufficiency, uh, independence. Mm-hmm. Um, and so, you know, having that sort of life, and again, the, the hobby form on steroids is, you know, we're trying to be as self-sufficient.

Mm-hmm. You know, that, that we can be. How big is your operation? I mean, do you have employees that help you kind of run the, the, uh, we have a farm manager. Mm-hmm. And then my wife, uh, uh, busts her butt seven days a week. You know, she runs the farm. Yeah. She's right over there. She's she's looking at you?

Yeah, she's, she's the absolute boss lady on that farm. Right, right. Um. But we do have a farm manager that's full-time, but I mean, it's, it's really just, uh, you know, the two of them on a day-to-day basis. Mm-hmm. Uh, try to pitch in when I can during the week and obviously the weekends. Right. You, we all work pretty, pretty hard on the weekends.

Right. Um, and then our two boys and my mom actually live on the, the, the property. We've got kind of the family compound. [00:14:00] Right. Which is always a dream of mine. Mm-hmm. Um, they're on the property as well and you know, they pitch in. Mm-hmm. We try not to be too, you know, especially with the boys, you know, they're, they're in their twenties.

I mean, they're, they're living their lives, so we try not to mm-hmm. To push our dreams or, or too much onto them, but they definitely, they pitch in all the time and help out, so. Yeah. I'm sure they, it's a family affair. Yeah. I'm sure they enjoy that, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, some days when they're still young Right.

You know, getting up at four 30. Yeah. Go feed the cows. We had, uh, actually one incident, this is, uh, probably a time they didn't enjoy it. Uh, a few years ago we square bailed, uh, one of our back, uh. Uh, pastures. Mm. And we had 2,700 square bales to pick up. Oh my God. And put up in the barn. Yeah. I can tell you they weren't too happy with us.

Right. Uh, you know, especially at two in the morning. Mm-hmm. And, uh, even my, my parents were there too, and I think it's the first time I've ever heard my dad say, you're killing your, you're killing your help son. Mm. You probably need to shut it down. Um, so they probably weren't too crazy about that night.

Right, right. I, well, I mean, I used to bell hay. Yeah. Yeah. In high school and I think, uh, I was [00:15:00] paid a quarter of bail. Yeah, sure. You know, which was pretty good back then. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, but I enjoyed it, you know, it's hot. I mean, you get itchy, obviously. Oh, sure. But, um, but it's, it's good work. Yeah. Yeah.

You out in the field. Yeah. No, I mean, it's, it's good. I mean, I, I think farming in this day and age is definitely probably overly romanticized. Mm-hmm. If I had to say, you know, with the Yellowstones and a lot of the shows that are out there mm-hmm. I mean, there's definitely a romantic part of it. And again, it's in's either in your core and in your soul type thing.

But I mean, there's definitely plenty of days that just. Planes suck. Yeah. I have a friend who's from Texas, his name is Greg Baron. And, um, he is like, you owns multiple businesses. I think his background is like architecture. Like he, he, he helps build large commercial buildings, like hospitals and things like that.

And he had a cattle business. Mm-hmm. And I remember several years ago when, and I kind of had this little desire like, oh, maybe I should get some cows. I'm, I'm done [00:16:00] working with people. Maybe should work with cows. They don't talk back. Yeah. Um, but, uh, I called him and he, he had like 250, um, head cow and he's near Fort Worth.

Yeah, sure, sure. And uh, he basically said, don't do it. He's like, trust me, don't do it. Yeah. He said, you'll be wasting all your time and then you won't be making any money unless you. Like yourself, like, like you really enjoy it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's a passion project. I think, you know, the scale that you have to be at today, and again, I'm not an expert by any means in the farming business.

Right. Right. But the scale that I think you have to really achieve Yeah. Is just now is tough. Is the goal to kind of offer kind of like a polyphase Farms, kinda like one of those organic where you can kind of come pick your beef and Yeah. I mean, we have, we have a farm store Yeah. Uh, on the property too.

Okay. Um, and again, it's, it's all grass fed, grass finished. Mm-hmm. So, I mean, we don't put chemicals in our field. I mean, again, we're trying to do it as organically and clean as possible. We have a closed farm. So as [00:17:00] far as animals. Everything has grown. That's why we bale hay, right? Mm-hmm. So we feed our cows the hay that comes off our property mm-hmm.

Just from an environmental standpoint, just to keep things nice and clean, especially with the chickens and mm-hmm. And things like that. Uh, but then we have the farm store, and so we sell outta the farm store, and we have other locals, kind of like a, think of it as like a farmer's market. Mm-hmm. But without charging people like booth costs, you know?

So we got a, a lot of folks that come over and bring their stuff, sell it in the store, and again, hopefully if they're buying that, then they'll buy some of our eggs and they'll buy some of our beef and mm-hmm. It's kind of a win-win. Well, I guess with the egg prices, it's kind of been interesting times for you.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, prices have definitely, I mean, I mean, everything's up, right? Like, you know, period. Unfortunately. Yeah. Right. Um, and I think, you know, with that though too, I mean, my wife's been really, really focused, you know, 'cause we do produce too. We have, uh, an orchard, so we sell fresh fruit. Wow. Um, and then whatever we don't sell, we make preserves.

Mm-hmm. Right. So, I mean, again, just kind of working through the. The process there. And, you know, we try to keep everything is really, [00:18:00] I mean, it's pretty low cost. How many hours a week do you manage just the farm business right now? Uh, well she probably, oh, you, yeah. She's probably doing 80 hours a week. Wow.

Yeah. I mean, it's seven days a week. I mean, so I mean, she's, she's up early and, I mean, and, and she's working late every day. And then again, I'm trying to do what I can at night. Yeah. I mean, my day job keeps me pretty busy too. And then, yeah, the weekends, I mean, I would think that we probably do 12 hour days on Saturday and Sunday mm-hmm.

In some form or fashion. So there's, there's really no downtime for y'all. Yeah. Not much. Yeah. You know, but it's okay though. I mean, I mean, I, I'll say that for myself. I, you enjoy it. Yeah. I, I enjoy working. Right. Um, I, I really do. Um, and stuff. So when, when, when you were younger, did, did, I mean. That sense of, of work.

Mm-hmm. You know, um, that ambition did, was it, was it your father or somebody in your family that kind of spurred you to kind of create this mindset where, well, I think I, I kind of, you know, [00:19:00] it's funny you asked that, right? 'cause I feel like there's a lot of realizations mm-hmm. That as a grown man, I think back and, you know, you know, I'm not sure I knew that, knew things then, but like, as I look back now and I'm like, Hmm.

And I think I grew up in a very entrepreneur family, and I don't think I realized that till really kinda later in life. Mm-hmm. Um, the family business was, was construction, so that was pretty obvious. General contracting, or sorry, electrical contracting. Mm-hmm. You know, and then even my, my pawpaw had a, uh, dry cleaners.

My aunt had an old print shop. You know, um, and so I came from a pretty entrepreneurial family. Mm-hmm. And again, coming from construction, I mean, it's, you know, you, you work right. And, and it's a family business. Right. So, I mean, you know, from an early age I was in the warehouse and sweeping floors and mm-hmm.

Helping with materials. And then through high school years, you know, doing some apprentice work. Uh, I've dug a lot of trenches. Um, I put a lot of underground in mm-hmm. And, uh, operate a lot of equipment. And so it just kind of becomes part of your life and your DNA, especially if it's a family [00:20:00] run business.

Right. Right. I mean, think about the farming and the family, you know, with this here. I mean, um, you know, if you're gonna have that kind of business, then like you're just sort of surrounded by, by work. Mm-hmm. And so I, I don't know if I knew any different. Right. You know, as I grew up, to be honest. Mm-hmm.

Right. Uh, because it was just, there was always something to do. Right. And there was always work that had to get done, you know, get done. So yeah. So I think that's, you know, and again, you know, my family, my dad, you know, my stepdad, my, my mom, um, all hardworking. Mm-hmm. I mean, it's just, that's just kind of the fiber that, uh, you know, from my genes.

Yeah. And, you know, looking at today's generation, you know, the technology and the video games and all the other different Yeah, sure. You know, opportunities that, that this generation missed out. You know, I kind of, I kind of feel bad because, like similar to you, you know, there was no off switch every weekend.

You know, when you're not in school or playing sports, you're working, you're either cutting grass or looking to make some extra money on the side to go. Go buy some cassette tapes for your Walkman, you know? [00:21:00] Absolutely. Right. You know, or, or helping the family business, whatever that is. Mm-hmm. Because, you know, my, my family also was very entrepreneur, both sides.

Yeah. Yeah. And it, it has an impact. 'cause I mean, when you grow up and you're around somebody that just has such a hardworking, you know, mentality, mindset mm-hmm. Around, you know, getting something done. Yeah, sure. And it's, it, it definitely wears out on you, so. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, and I, I, I don't think you just, again, you just don't realize it till, you know, you kind of get older and you, you know, you get around different environments and mm-hmm.

And you're like, Hmm, maybe this isn't normal. Right. On some level, right. Yeah. But, uh, but anyway, but I mean, you know, I love to work, I love to take on new challenges and, and try things and mm-hmm. And all that good stuff. So, so growing up, you said you grew up near Houston. Mm-hmm. And your family had multiple businesses and, and very hardworking, but you decided to go to the military.

Yep. Yep. Okay. What, what, what, what motivated you to do that? Um, well again, you know, I, I try to be as [00:22:00] honest, uh, in life as possible to be a, I just wasn't ready for college. Um, I think some of the best advice I got was from my headmaster. I think my parents actually, and, and they got together and probably had a little, little pre-meeting.

Um, but I wasn't ready to go to college. Um, I think academically I just wasn't, you know, in high school I wanted to play sports. I wanted to work, I wanted to have fun. You know, I just, you know, like, like a lot of kids. Right. Um, and so he recommended, uh, the military and, you know, look a lot of military in my family too.

And I think for, you know, it was something where my strengths, which was work ethic and work rates mm-hmm. And being athletic. So I mean, from a pt, physical, you know, fitness, um, and then it would give me the time at the same time that no choice environment. Mm-hmm. Where you don't have a choice son. Right.

You, you're in the military, right? Mm-hmm. I think. That ended up being the right decision for me, uh, on many levels. Mm-hmm. Uh, because it allowed me to kind of mature academically and kind of mature and understand that like, just 'cause you [00:23:00] can work hard here, you still gotta do this part too, and Right. And again, I think, you know, at early, early age, I think I understood it, but like when the military, what really shaped me is like, there's a lot of things you're gonna do in your life that you just don't want to do.

Mm-hmm. And you just gotta do 'em. Right. Right. And so, you know, that's a hard lesson, um, I think for, for a lot of kids. Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah, so I mean, I went to the military after, after high school, the Navy. Yeah. Went to the Navy. Mm-hmm. Um, was, uh, crypto tech, um, you know, in the Navy as well. Uh, that was very fortunate because as we get into GovCon in the future and, and the cleared world, you know, uh, that was my first clearance at 18 years old.

Mm-hmm. Um, that kind of, again, put me on a path. Um, did they select that for you or is that something you chose? Uh, well when you go to, when you. You take your ass fab and you go in there and you meet with them. And again, it's all about billets and, and openings too, right? Mm-hmm. It's all resource management.

Mm-hmm. And at the time, it was funny. Um, so I had three choices. Um, and I guess, you know, I, I did [00:24:00] good enough on my ass fab, right? So they, they gave me three choices. They said, you can either be a ct, crypto tech, you could be a, a, a nuke, you know, so like nuclear sub stuff. Mm-hmm. Or a religious petty officer.

And I think, you know, I went to private school and so maybe that was why they offered that or, but the new, I was like, well, I don't wanna go to college. The last thing I wanna do is go spend two years at new school. Right? Even if I do get to come out as an E five, you know, that's not gonna happen, right?

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, and then crypto and I, you know, they're reading it and like, I see this top secret clearance or you know, this cleared stuff in cryptology. And, you know, I used to love watching James Bond as a kid, and you know, I'll saying this, right? Yeah. And, uh, I was like, well, that sounds kind of cool.

Yeah. Uh, I'll pick that. And so, you know, so they give you a mix, okay. Based on your, you know, your scores and the billets and the openings and what they're recruiting for, right? Mm-hmm. It's just recruiting. So, so 18, you got your security clearance and Yeah. Now you're working in some top secret stuff. Yeah, I got, well I got stationed in Gimo, my first, uh, duty station.

Really? Yeah. [00:25:00] Yeah. It was, uh, during the, one of the Haitian migrant, uh, times. Mm-hmm. And so it was a one year tour and after a school at Cory Station in Florida was stationed there for a year. Mm-hmm. Um, great duty station. Um, it was a small command too. Mm-hmm. And so there were only two of us, uh, in my rate that did that job.

So being able to do everything. Mm-hmm. Or, or and, and have that opportunity because if you go to a larger command, again, you might be stuck on a desk to do this or this or this, so. Mm-hmm. I, I was very fortunate to go to a, a small command where I was able to really kind of do everything in the rates and mm-hmm.

And really understand, you know, what I needed to understand. Mm-hmm. So, so after Gimo, did you deploy overseas or, uh, no, actually I got, um, uh, very fortunate, but I, I got selected to go to the Joint Chiefs. Mm-hmm. Um, from there, uh, up at the Pentagon and that's how I really got to Northern Virginia. Okay. And so, um, and I was an E3 too, so pretty, pretty [00:26:00] junior.

Um, so that's why I was pretty fortunate and went up to the Joint Chiefs. Uh, J3 uh, I had three positions during my three years there. Started out in Counter-Narcotics division. Then moved up into the military secretariat, and then my last gig was the last year was in the front office. Um, and I could tell you that, that last year I've all, I think I've had a lot of interesting jobs, a lot of great jobs, a lot of jobs that have taught me things.

And I think that last year being, gosh, I was 21 years old. Mm. In the J3 the front office, the D ring the E ring um, around, you know, the, the, the officers and the, this again, the three star and the two star, and being exposed to so much at such a young age, um, just impressive officers, um, their leadership styles.

Mm-hmm. Um, what really separated them. I mean, it was just amazing to see how much data they could take in. Mm-hmm. And then turn around and say, okay, I'm gonna go brief the White House or the SEC def or something crazy like that. Right. You know, for a 21-year-old, it just blew my [00:27:00] mind right then that they had such ability.

Right? Mm-hmm. So, yeah, so I mean, it was, uh, it was a great opportunity. I spent four and a half years active duty, um, working at the Pentagon. Uh, three years. Three years of the Pentagon, but it was four and a half active duty. Yeah. So, well that experience must have been transformative for you, I mean Oh yeah.

Working at that high level, especially with the security clearance and dealing with the type of information and reporting. Yeah. Yeah. You had to do. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think the being exposed Mm. You know, to such, you know, again, I think that's really big, you know, for someone who's young. Mm-hmm. The more you can be exposed to, the more that you can do as quick as you can do that first time, you know, of, of anything.

Mm-hmm. Get it done. Right. Um, because it just provides so much more context and perspective. Mm-hmm. And so for me to be so young and to, to be around that and to see that. Um, I know, like when I started my first company, you know, going and being 27 years old and, and meeting with an executive vice president, at Lockheed Martin didn't really scare me.

[00:28:00] Mm-hmm. Right. And in the, in a good way. Mm-hmm. Because again, I think I'd just been exposed to, to so much at a young age that that was, uh, that that that was very helpful. Mm-hmm. And then I think the, probably some of the biggest things I got outta that last, that, that last year in that front office too, was the, the, the leadership style of the officers that I worked for were something that just, I definitely ran into those as I got into the government world.

And there's definitely some iers and some senior executive service folks that provided the, that, but the humility mm-hmm. Um, the, uh, sense of something bigger than self. And I think that's the military in general. Correct. I mean, if there's something that you're gonna get from being in the military, supporting the federal government is that it's something bigger than you.

Mm-hmm. Um, and so. so Leading from the front and, and leading by example. All those, those great characteristics that I think you absolutely have to have as a leader. Oh, a hundred percent. Um, I saw, I just, I saw that just probably in spades. [00:29:00] Mm-hmm. You know, at the Pentagon. At the same time, you know, you're, you know, when you come from the fleets and you're in the Navy, or any service for that matter, you know, oh 5, 0 6, those are some pretty big ranks.

You know, a Navy captain, that's a pretty big deal. Right. And so to be at the Pentagon and see even one stars on shift work Mm. Right. That I thought that was really kind of interesting. And, and again, the, just the humility and I mean, again, a one star general working at shift work in the NMCC, that was pretty, that was pretty cool too.

Well, capitalizing on experience. So you said four years in active duty. Mm-hmm. So did you transition into, um, serving your company or not? Not yet. Actually. And I'll, I'll back up for a second. Uh. When I was in the Navy, let's go back to, to working. Mm-hmm. Um, I was driving down Columbia Pike, uh, one night, and this is up in like the Arlington area.

Um, and I came on a restaurant called Lone Star Steakhouse in Saloon, right? Yeah. And I'm like, wow, that looks kind of homey. And I pulled in there [00:30:00] and, and, and, and ate dinner. And, um, went back there a few times. And then after a while, I, I, I asked one of the managers, like, you guys got an application? You guys looking to hire and for some reason, you know, I, I took on a part-time job, you know, at Lone Star Steakhouse.

Was this when you could still throw peanuts on the floor? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Wasn't that the best? Oh, it was great. Yeah. Except when you had to clean 'em up, you know? Right. But, but we used to go there on the weekends, you know, down in Gastonian, you know, where I grew up, and they had a lone star. Okay.

Kind of chuckled when you said that. Yeah, yeah. Well, 'cause like, I mean, they don't have those in Texas. Right. So, like, when I drove, I'm like, what is that lone star? Well, wow. And I walk in, I'm like, okay, you see the Texas flag and all the Yeah. Neon lights. Like, I'm, I'm like, sir, let's go. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, so yeah. So I get a part-time job there. Mm-hmm. Um. Not really sure why. Just again, I just again, liked to work and stuff. Um, but it was great though, because that's also where I met my wife. Mm-hmm. Uh, we've been together almost 28 years now. Congratulations. And she worked. Thank you. Yeah. Uh, she worked at Lone [00:31:00] Star and I did, and so that last sort of year and a half of my three years at the Pentagon mm-hmm.

I worked at Lone Star. And, and so I, I, I say that, 'cause once one I got out, you know, at the end of that I was doing a little kitchen manager kind of responsibility. Mm-hmm. You know, again, you know, you know, like to excel, like to do good things, right? Mm-hmm. So I was a kitchen manager kind of at the end of my tour, um, you know, with Lone Star and kind of slid into this kind of a, a fix it role.

Mm-hmm. Um, for, you know, 'cause I was in my transition, right. You know, what do I wanna do? I got out, do I want to do the food business? Do I want to, you know, again, I'm outta the military. I'm not sure what I'm gonna do. So I stayed on with Lone Star and, and did some ki Roving Kitchen manager. Okay. You know, up at like Laurel, Maryland and Alexandria and a few different places and mm-hmm.

Just try to help get food costs back in line, things like that, right? Mm-hmm. And then, um, you know, I was hourly getting time and a half. Mm-hmm. So I was making some pretty good money, right? Mm-hmm. And then they decided, they, they offered me a full-time, full-time job, and it was [00:32:00] unbelievably less than. So you were working part-time at Lone Star and in the military?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, for sure. Actually, actually, there was a time there. I think I made more money at Lone Star, especially like the E three, E four or E four. Right. I made more money at Lone Star than I made in the Navy. Wow. You know, and, and at that point too, I mean, we're married and, I mean, we had our first kid and I mean, you know, and stuff.

So like that became, you know, quickly why, you know Right. A lot more hours and mm-hmm. I think I even delivered newspapers one of those years. Mm-hmm. Even in the early morning we we hours of the morning as well too. Mm-hmm. Um, and she was working full time. Right. I mean, you know, DC's a tough place to, to.

To be young and to, to raise a family even back then. Mm-hmm. I mean, it's tough now, but it's, you know, it was tough then. It's expensive place. Yes. It's, you know, stuff. So, but anyway, so after Lone Star, I did that, and then I still love the food business. I always have. Um, and so then I took a job actually for a year.

This is, this was kinda like, you know, when you go to college and then you take your year break and mm-hmm. Before you, you know, so I took a year and I ran a butcher shop in DC uh, wa Shaw's market. [00:33:00] Wow. And, uh, a great job. Um, I really, I mean, I love cutting meat. I mean, I, I, I, I, I like the food business. Yeah.

And, and again, I love beef. That's probably why, again, with the cows and all that stuff. Right. So I ran that butcher shop, and to be honest, again, another great opportunity because I, I managed more people in that job at that point in my career mm-hmm. Than I had done anywhere else. Mm-hmm. I mean, even in the Navy, especially being at the Pentagon.

I left as an E five. So I mean, you know, I was still like the most junior right person walking those halls, at least in the, in the joint chiefs. And so working at the butcher shop, I managed, you know, from high school all the way up to, you know, much older. Mm-hmm. Uh, and much older than me. And again, now I'm 23 years old and, you know, doing a couple million out the front door, couple million out the back door wholesale.

Mm-hmm. Right. So a decent size, you know, op, uh, operation. Hardest interview I ever had in my career was w Shell's market. The, uh, the owners were, uh, both prior, uh, uh, Marine Corps. Mm-hmm. I think both were Vietnam, [00:34:00] um, so I mean, tough guys. Right. And so I think it was a three hour interview. Hmm. I don't think I've ever, I, it was definitely the, I mean, the hardest interview I've ever had.

Mm-hmm. I think it's 'cause I was so young, and to be honest, if I wasn't prior military, not really sure they would've hired mm-hmm. Hired me, uh, the GM of their butcher shop. It was a small family business. It was kind of the heart and soul. Mm-hmm. It was just from a purchasing and just how they operated the, the business.

Mm-hmm. And so it was just very instrumental, like to their delis. They had a few delis, they had some stuff at au things like that. And so I think it was just a big responsibility and they just weren't sure. Right. What they, they're like, should we really hire this 23-year-old to be the gm? So, um, but it was a tough interview.

I was able to convince them to give me a shot and, um, and so I was there for a year. I actually worked for a guy also, his name's Greg Priest and he was another great guy because up until then everybody that I'd worked for, or again the military, my, you know, pretty strict upbringing, uh, [00:35:00] construction had been pretty like, you know, very tough.

Mm-hmm. We're gonna get it done. I mean, just that kind of hardcore. Right, right. Um, and so I worked for Greg and I, what I really appreciate, 'cause Greg was definitely high standards. He was tough as tough as nails too, but. He could still have a little fun. Mm-hmm. And so it was a, it was a, a nice change and exposure to a different leadership style of, Hey, we can really work hard, but we can have some fun too.

Mm-hmm. Um, and I don't think I'd really seen that, you know, um, from anyone yet too. And so, even though, you know, I wasn't there for years, didn't work for him for years. It was just one year. But he was pretty, pretty influential I think, in, in my growth. Mm-hmm. You know, uh, in my, in my twenties. Right. So, and then, um, after, that's when I decided to go ahead and, you know, leverage my clearance, get into the consulting business.

Mm-hmm. Um, went to work for Raytheon, um, and started down that path. Well, it's, it's an interesting, um, path that you chose because you were, you were [00:36:00] making some strides and doing really well in the Pentagon, in the cleared world, and you decided to kind of pivot and go into the private sector in the restaurant business and.

It seems like the, the meat packaging and things like that, um, and then you decided to pivot back into Yep. The government. Were you burned out at the time? Like, I just needed a change of pace and, you know, uh, to be honest, I think, uh, I, I think the ceiling issues of what I saw in the food business. Okay. Um, I think I just, you know, I wanted to a little bit more and I wanted to aspire to some.

Right. Um, I think also too, to be honest, um, uh, I don't have a college degree. Uh, and so when I was leaving the butcher shop, you know, I was thinking about some restaurant groups and companies, and to be honest, uh, you know, being a district manager, regional manager again trying to continue to progress up the ladder.

Mm-hmm. You know, my paper against someone else's paper wasn't gonna fly. Right. Um, and so I, I quickly [00:37:00] realized probably some ceiling issues. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, both in just career, uh, financial. Right. Um, I saw a higher ceiling on the government contracting side. Um, again, both in, in, in opportunity and financial, again, young family.

I mean, you know, we have our mm-hmm. You know, we got responsibilities. Correct. Gotta provide all that kind of stuff. Right. So I just, it, it just, I could tell even at a young age that Okay, that ceiling just seems to be higher. Mm-hmm. And there's more opportunities. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, in that space. So then you pivoted to Raytheon.

Yeah. And you were able to get your clearance reactivated and, well, luckily again, as a ct, I was a reservist. Um, so, okay. So my clearance was active. He was active. Active the entire, you know, 'cause I was a reservist for about eight and a half years. Okay. Total after my active duty. Okay. And, um, you know, so it was still active and, and, and thank goodness.

Mm-hmm. Um, so I was able to parlay that at Raytheon doing configuration management. Mm-hmm. Uh, data management, managing seed drills and rals and all that fun stuff. Mm-hmm. [00:38:00] Um. Did they place you in the intelligence community from the beginning or, actually, no, that was my, uh, we were more, I was a DOD contract.

Okay. That first gig with Raytheon. Okay. Uh, I think it was an Army contract. Uh, you know, they were building out Humvees mm-hmm. With a bunch of comms gear in the back mm-hmm. With the old e systems, you know, side of the house. Mm-hmm. Um, and so my next job at Viridian Systems was my first, uh, okay. So you worked at Raytheon for a time.

Yeah. And then you, you switched over to Viridian? Yeah. Okay. Higher pay, better work environment. Yeah. Higher pay. Um, went from a configuration analyst to configuration manager. Yeah. You know, for a program, you know, additional responsibility. Yeah. You know, so on and so on. I know it's, it's frowned upon, but there, there is a strategy, especially when you're young in your careers mm-hmm.

To switch companies after first couple years. Mm-hmm. Um, whether companies admit it or not, they do pigeonhole their employees. If you hire somebody, say at a hundred thousand dollars. [00:39:00] You're only getting 3-4 increase, you know? Right, sure. In cost of living adjustment, things like that. They're not really incentivized, especially if you get your master's degree or if you're working 60, 70 hours a week and you're getting a lot of successful capture done on your project, they don't care.

You know, it's, you could, you could do middle of the line or, or you know, knock it outta the park. Yeah. You're still getting the same raise. You might get a little bonus, like a thousand dollars or something, but they're not really incentivized to, to, to get you, so an only way to really achieve financial success, especially earlier careers, to switch companies.

And I, I did the same thing, so Yeah. I understand exactly what you were thinking and, and doing at that time. So. I mean, I think that's, it's normal, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, I think that's first few jobs, you're definitely gonna do that. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, eventually it'll catch up with you. So, I mean, you gotta stop at some point, right?

Mm-hmm. Eventually someone's, you know, I mean, even it's a little different now than it was then. I mean, I think people [00:40:00] moving around more is, is okay. Mm-hmm. Uh, it's not as, I mean, I think when we were both starting out, it was definitely more frowned upon if, if someone was job-hopping like every year, year after year after year.

Yeah. If you saw three or four one year stints, then you're like, there's something wrong with this candidate. Right. You know, there's only so many times you can say, oh, the project ended. Right. You know, that's a good excuse. Like, why did you only stay 18 months? Yeah. Right. Uh, project round money, you know, had, had to find another company.

Oh, yeah. Okay. You know? Yeah. So it's, it's not as, um, uh, it, I think it's more okay now. Mm-hmm. Um, and again, even as an owner, again, it's more, you know, again, I'm a big why guy too, so. Mm-hmm. Like, if people leave, I just wanna understand why. Mm-hmm. I mean, there's mm-hmm. There's good reasons, there's bad reasons.

Mm-hmm. Um, there's reasons you can't control. Um, so again, as long as like you're, you have a decent reason and it's defendable. Mm-hmm. Um, at the same time, technology's changing so much and Right. People want those opportunities. And I think if, if a company doesn't have that mm-hmm. Then I mean that, I think that's where we're always striving for.

at Right. [00:41:00] NextPoint is, is to, is when we do business development, I mean, it's your next job. Mm-hmm. I mean, that's really how we approach business development. Right. It's not about winning primes or that stuff. It's, it's, it's, it's your next job. Right. And so having that proper mix of contracts so that when you're ready for that next opportunity, whether that's tech driven, whether that's mission driven mm-hmm.

You know, we're, we're, we're trying to do the, our, our, our best to provide that. At the same time, if we don't, I mean, again, fair enough. I understand. Um, you know, just, you know, make sure you leave the right way. Mm-hmm. You know, like, you know, it's, it's all stay adults. Mm-hmm. Uh, and hopefully you'll come back when, when I do have something for you.

So what, what year was this when you switched to Viridian and started working in the Intel community? Oh. I think 2000. 2000? Yeah, around around 2000, 2001. Okay. Timeframe. So that, that was right around the Y 2K. Yeah, sure. Yeah, sure. That was a big, big issue back then. I'm just curious, what was your first impression of working in government contracting when you took the job at [00:42:00] Raytheon and, you know, had some experience working in the DOD Army side and now switching to the Intel community.

Right. You know, you're young. Mm-hmm. You have a very strong blue collar work ethic, typically running circles around people your own age and even older. Um, what was your first impression of the people you worked with? Um, slow, um, aircraft carrier. Mm-hmm. You know, and not in a good way. Right, right. I mean, aircraft carrier usually, you know, stability, strength, you know.

Right. Um, but I kind of equate, uh, a lot of the, the federal government kinda world to, you know, a bunch of aircraft carriers, so they're also slow. Don't change fast, can't go, you know? So yeah, I mean, it was definitely a slower pace. It definitely was, uh, frustrating. Uh, yes, on many levels. I mean, a hundred percent my first job, six months in, I got pulled aside and was told, and I still remember the quote, uh, this [00:43:00] lady told me, she said, you need to be careful and not work yourself outta work.

Right. And I'm like, what are you talking about? She's like, pace yourself? Sure, sure. Look around you. It's just like, you know, kind of, kind of accept your environment, right? And work under these conditions. And I, I understood what this person was telling me at the time, but then I also said, f that no. Yeah, sure, sure.

That's not who I am. Right? Similar to you, you, we were raised a certain way and we operate a certain way and you know, we have passion and we, you know, we have our own. Sense of pride in how we work and, you know, we wanna do a good job, right. We wanna get recognized. Yeah. And the only way to kind of, you know, battle through some of that is to set a higher standard.

Right. You know, work, work at a higher standard. And, um, I still think about that every day. Yeah. You know, like, what, what am I doing today? You know, it's pace yourself, why Sure, sure. You know, there's some so many things to do. [00:44:00] Right, right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think, you know, standards are also, I, I think that that's a good thing to talk about.

Right. I think that personal standards are so important. Mm-hmm. Uh, that was definitely, uh, beat into me at a young age and, you know, from the military as well. Right. You know, just having high standards, trying to do the best you can, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, I, I tell you, every, everything that, and again, we're striving this all, so everything that we're, we're talking about too is you're striving.

Mm-hmm. You're aspiring. There's plenty of failures. You definitely don't hit the mark every time a hundred percent. Mm-hmm. But what you're trying to do is, anything and everything that you do is the best you can possibly do at that moment in time. Mm-hmm. Right? Any project, anything that you're doing.

Mm-hmm. Um, and I think if you can do that, 'cause I mean, more times than not, you're probably gonna win. And more times than not, you're gonna be successful. Um, but you definitely have to have high standards. Right. And I think the, the personal standard, like the standard for Richard Stroop, right? I mean that your personal standards, no one should have a higher standard for Richard Stroop than Richard Stroop.

Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. [00:45:00] And so I think that's extremely important. Um, I, and the NextPoint I mean, uh, from that perspective, you know, the government's not our standard. Uh, general dynamics is not our standard. Mm-hmm. Right. Our, you know, our prime partners, the standard is NextPoint Group, you know, is, is that's what we're striving for mm-hmm.

In our culture. And it's not well, they think they're good enough. So it's good enough. Mm-hmm. I mean, I think that's just, that's a slippery slope and I think that's, that's something you want to be always be careful for. Right. So you're just, you're just, you're just pushing for high standards. Mm-hmm. And again, just doing the best you can.

Right. Right. Yeah. I mean, better be better tomorrow than you are today. Exactly. I mean, it's, you know, that part's not rocket science. Right. You know. So how long were you at Veridian before you started your company code? Um, it was about three years total. Okay. Um, I also did a little time at Harris. Okay. Uh, corporation too.

Um, so this was still early two thousands. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, yeah, it was about three years and I, to be honest, I, I got to the end of that three year mark [00:46:00] and I. Again, I think the entrepreneur bug was really starting to kind of hit me a little bit and I'd been there around long enough where it's like, Hmm, I don't, I'm not sure this business is that hard.

Um, you know, it's, you know, have a good rate, you know, have it be more than what you have to pay someone, you know, pay them the best benefits you possibly can. You know, this is the, the typical a hundred percent health, you know, I know you're very familiar with Fringe, Intel Fringe, yeah. Benefits packages.

Fringe, overhead, DNA, right? Yeah. Um, mm-hmm. And I was fortunate to, to be in a contracting environment too, where, you know, you didn't have to go out and do a, spend a lot of b and p dollars on winning proposals if you were on a certain contract or certain enterprise contract, it had openings every week.

Mm-hmm. And if you had a good person, you could submit your person. And so it was kind of a built in right. business development. Um, and so after about three years, I said, you know what? I, I think I'm gonna, I'm gonna give it a shot and mm-hmm. I'm gonna, I'm gonna start my own company. I, 'cause I don't think this is hard and I think.

You [00:47:00] know, we really kind of wanted to fix everything that we hated about big companies. Yeah. Right. I mean, just whether it was there, there was a bias. Yeah. I mean, there still is kinda like small company versus large company. There's pros and cons to both, but, right. Yeah. Yeah, because I, I just, I feel like so much of, of it's choices.

Mm-hmm. Right. I mean, I, I understand companies get big for a certain reason, and there's bureaucracy. I mean, like companies, big companies become a certain way for legitimate reasons. Mm-hmm. And they're, it's tough. I mean, the bigger you get, the more you have to manage your control and all that. But at the same time, the gap between a small company and a Lockheed Martin's pretty big gap.

Mm-hmm. And a lot of runway to make good choices. Taking care of your people, paying 'em good money, you know, providing experiences for 'em, whether that's your holiday parties, your, your happy hours. Just again, having fun. There's a lot of runway between a small company and those big companies, right. To be able to provide that kind of environment and culture Right.

For folks. Right. Culture. Yeah. Yeah. You hit, you hit the nail on the head. Yeah. So, uh, [00:48:00] understanding that the culture drives incentives and drives people to inspire, to join a smaller company for, for the lifestyle, right. Just how they're treated. Yep. For sure. So it goes back to, to just treating people as you wanna be treated.

Yeah. I mean, this is all golden rule stuff, right? I mean, it really Yeah. It's, it's common boils down to that, right? But when you're, when you're stuck in a large bureaucratic business, you're just a cog in the wheel. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And we both experienced that. Yeah. And we both understood that, hey, there is a better lifestyle.

You could still operate your business and still do the things you like to do, but have a, a better culture to work with. Mm-hmm. And I think that's probably one of the most. Interesting driving factors in government contracting and, and really in any small business. Right? Right. It's, it's, it's the people you work with.

It's how you're treated. It's the work environment, it's the opportunities of growth. Mm-hmm. You know, are you investing in me and do, are you taking [00:49:00] care of my needs? Right. You know, versus the companies. Of course, you have a balancing act. You have to take care of the company too, but Yeah. Yeah. Sure, sure.

But I think it's, you know, just like the military we talked about, bigger than self, I think. Mm-hmm. In the government contracting world, especially in national security and intel. Mm-hmm. Again, talk about bigger than self, right? Mm-hmm. You know, I mean, I would, I would say that anybody that's in those buildings, supporting those customers mm-hmm.

Are there for something more than just themselves. Mm-hmm. Right. They're driven by, uh, you know, the culture of, again, protecting Americans, catching bad guys. Mm-hmm. I mean, we're all doing our part, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, whatever, whatever that company's doing, we're supporting. That mission and, and so I think it just breeds again, just, you know, not being selfish.

It, it brings us selflessness, servant leadership. It just, you know, that that environment just sort of is, is very conducive to Right. Good culture and taking care of people because when you walk in that building That's right. It's mission first. Yes. I mean that, I mean, that's, that's why we're there. And, and when most of your [00:50:00] employees work in a skiff, in a remote building, it's not like you have a home office.

Right. You know, like I, I sit on boards and, and invest in companies where, you know, they have an office, everybody goes there, they ring a bell and they, you know, have a good contract. I mean, all that kind of stuff. Sure, sure. It's really cool. But that culture doesn't exist in government contracting. It's, it's almost virtual, you know?

Sure, sure. You go to a government building and work your 8, 9, 10 hour day. Come home, check your mail. Um, and maybe coordinate an event once a quarter, once a week, once a month. Right. You know, it's, it's hard. It's a hard balancing act. It is. And I think, you know, having people spread out, I mean, I think that's why the, the deliberate, you know, it's a, a term that we use at NextPoint a lot is the deliberate approach that we take on managing our folks because we are so spread out.

Mm-hmm. We are not in the same location. Right. Then the, we have to spend that extra time trying to make people feel a part of the company. Right. Right. I mean, 'cause they could be off in [00:51:00] a building 30 miles away and, and maybe be the only NextPoint employee in that building. And so making sure that we come, we come and we see them.

'cause at the big companies, I mean, I think you, it's what you were kind of talking about earlier. There were plenty of times where I, I saw my program manager once a year. Mm-hmm. Right. My annual review and then I wouldn't see that person till next year. Right. And so, again, trying to, you know, be deliberate about our approach when it comes to taking care of our folks.

And making sure that we're touching them as much as we can. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, I mean, we're fighting the good fight. I mean, it's tough. Mm-hmm. It's challenging because we're not in the same location. Right. We're not in the same building. Yeah. Um, it makes it tough. Do you think the government sector, the public sector and government contracting specifically, if we had a different work environment, say we adopted more private sector work environments mm-hmm.

Where each company kind of had its own hub, you know, instead of having a project based and maybe give a project to, uh, one company [00:52:00] versus having 15 various companies work on a project of Right. 50 people. Right. Which you kind of, that's the way things are today. Yeah. Sure. Using all this experience at, at Veridian, you said you stayed for a couple years and, and you had the bug, the entrepreneur bug, like, you know, this was around you said '04, '05.

Yeah. '04 is when I started coding. Okay. Tell me about that. Like, you know, what, what motivated you to start your business? I think again, I, well, pretty ambitious. Mm-hmm. You know, I definitely wanted to do some things in my life. Um, entrepreneurial bug again from the family. And again, I just, I think I just saw an opportunity.

Mm-hmm. You know, and I think with the built in business development and the opportunity to, to own something and, and, and make an impact mm-hmm. I think, you know, it's, it just, something was telling me like, give it a shot. Go for it. Right, right. Um, and I think, you know, I think it's, you definitely don't wanna take those opportunities for granted.

Mm-hmm. And [00:53:00] so, uh, took the swing, you know, I think, uh, it was definitely a little rough, um, at first, in the beginning at first. Mm-hmm. Um, I think, um, I remember my wife saying, you know, American Express is cards up, uh, to a pretty decent amount. You ever gonna get paid? Those, those kinds of mm-hmm. Challenges and stuff.

Did you have other co-founders or did you do this by yourself? Well, so, um, so I started coding myself. Mm-hmm. But just, you know, I won't, I'll give you the abridged version 'cause I think it's important. Um, NextPoint Group was started by Ron Kadi. Mm-hmm. Um, who's my business partner. Mm-hmm. And so Ron and I met each other and really hit it off.

'cause, you know, I think in government contracting, at least in our space and in my opinion, the yin and yang that we call, and the inside outside presence. Mm-hmm. Uh, 'cause I was an inside on onsite billable, you know, engineer direct labor mm-hmm. Direct labor. Mm-hmm. Um, and Ron with his, um, his MBAness mm-hmm.

You know, and the finance background, um, brilliant negotiator. Mm-hmm. You know, and stuff. And so we [00:54:00] just kind of hit it off and I think realized, you know, I think any, any really good company, there's, there's always usually a partnership. Mm-hmm. You know, that kind of comes together. And so we really just did a quick stock swap between code and the NextPoint Group

and that's how we kind of came together. Really that oh four, uh, late oh four timeframe. Okay. And then set off together to go build Co. Okay. Um, um, so you, you, so I thought NextPoint was launched way after co but you're saying No, no. I mean, it actually, NextPoint technically was founded a month before code.

Okay. Uh, because again, Ron, I think it was, it was July. July of oh four, Ron, uh, he, he launched NextPoint I, in August. I did co Okay. And, and again, it was really quick too. I mean, like fall, uh, we, we got introduced for, from a, a, a friend of ours. Mm-hmm. And we just really kind of hit it off. Mm-hmm. You know, I mean, uh, you know.

So was Coen kind of like a subsidiary of NextPoint? Uh, no. I mean, it was just two separate companies. Okay. We just kept 'em separate. Okay. Uh, because code was gonna be more of the pure play, [00:55:00] you know, uh, Intel type company. Okay. And so, and NextPoint was more DOD at the time. Right. More DOD and like just kind of off to the side doing some temp to perm, I mean, you kind of stuff.

But, you know, we had decided that, you know, we were gonna focus on coding. Mm-hmm. And. Right. And try to build that as quick as we could over the, these couple years. So you and Ron basically ran code for Yeah. How many years? Uh, three years. I mean, we sold at the three year mark. Okay. How many employees did you have in those three years?

Uh, 40. Yeah. You know, so small, but, uh, so it was a good trial run, right? You, oh, yeah. You got to understand how to launch a government business for sure. How to build your, your models. Yeah, because I think building the financial model is the key, right? Mm-hmm. Having the, as you mentioned, the fringe, the overhead, the GNA pools and having it all approved and, you know, a lot of people think like, oh, you can just go get our contract and start, you know, your company.

No, I mean, you have to, you have to go through a series of control gates to be open for business and one of those control gates is having your financial package approved, right? Or, you know, [00:56:00] your set of books, your sobs, right? Unless you're, um, certified, uh, going through the, that whole. Um, certification, which is very, you know, labor intensive, but Right.

Um, so oh four to oh seven. Yep. Yeah, we sold in oh seven. Right. Um, and I remember this. Yeah. Yeah. Because I started TRS as a 10 99 in oh one. Mm-hmm. And then in oh four pivoted to W2 employees. Right. Because I had a bunch of 10 90 nines at the time. I was like a control house for, you know, all the Oracle 10 99 people.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. You're a big oracle shop at that time. Yeah. Yeah. They were really pissed at us because, uh, you know, I worked You must have been doing good things then. Well, I, I worked at Oracle and had a bunch of Oracle buddies, and when I went out on my own, they're like, what are you doing?

You bought a beach house, you're, you're killing it, you know? Yeah. Right. Like, this is the best ever. You should come do this. Right. Well, I don't know how to do it. Well, let me do it for you. [00:57:00] It's like. You know, you crack the code. Yeah. You know, it's like, okay, that's fine. How much you wanna make? You know, oh yeah, I'll, I'll pay you 1 25 an hour and go find a contract for 140.

Yeah, sure. Then you kind of make, make the middle as, uh, the overhead. So of course that's kind of hard to do under today's times. Yeah. Um, with everybody watching every dollar, but, um, but it was, it was a good run. So you were successful building a company of 40 and I remember having a couple code employees mm-hmm.

On some projects of ours, which they were very sharp. Yeah. One developer at the time, his name you probably Chris, Chris Flippy, flip Flips, Flipse Flip, yeah, yeah, yeah. Brilliant. Ruby on Rails. Oh my God. Yeah. He was a big Ruby guy. Yeah. And this is when Ruby Open Source was new and the project that we, we had most of our people on.

Yep. That, that was the transformative project. Yeah. I mean, that was the, I mean, that was the thing back then. That's where I spent all my time. Sure, sure. You know, [00:58:00] I was working on that project and building the business. Right. And, you know, Chris was one of the lead developers working with our guy Devin.

Mm-hmm. And, uh, those two were peas in the pod. Right. You know, but, uh, I learned a lot from him about agile process and Yeah. Sure. You know, the things that he brought to the table was just a, a brilliant developer. Yeah. Um, but then you sold in oh seven. Oh seven. Yeah. And then you immediately folded into NextPoint at that point, or No, I mean, we, we sold in oh seven.

Um, well, let's back that up real quick. Yeah, sure. What motivated you to sell? Because I think a lot of companies, when you start a company, you don't start it with the idea of I'm gonna build this up and then sell it. Right, right. You know, like, what's the exit strategy? Sure, sure. But you, you know, you must have grind for three years and figured out like, wow, this is a lot of work.

There's a lot of things to do running a business and mm-hmm. Some things can scale, some things can't scale. Right. So what, what motivated you to [00:59:00] sell the business? Yeah. I think it was the first, you know, you get those, um, infrastructure investments. Mm-hmm. You know, as you get up to like 50 people, at least in my opinion, you know, you, you start running up on, whether that's accounting software, it's online time sheets, you know, maybe the Excel spreadsheet for time sheets isn't gonna cut anymore.

Right. You know, so you, you kind of run up on some of those, uh, infrastructure investments. Uh, it could be reporting to HR type reportings. It's that first sort of threshold. Mm-hmm. And at that point, you know, we were just like, Hmm, do we really wanna do that? You know, we just really, I don't know, weren't ready to do that.

And so at that point we had, you know, made a decision to go ahead and at least put our, you know, put our toe out there and, and, and, you know, see what would happened. And actually in oh seven was a really good time. 'cause valuations were, yeah, no valuations. Great premium. Roll-ups were, you know, they, they, they were definitely in vogue.

Yeah. I mean, private equity really has hadn't come in the market just yet. So this was more strategic, big shops buying up some of the smaller guys [01:00:00] around technology and some of the projects that they were trying to get onto. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think ours was one of the first PE backed, um, oh, yours was the PE buyer?

Yeah, it was a PE outta Chicago. Okay. Um, but definitely early on. Mm-hmm. Um, and the company that, uh, bought us good group, um, but more on the fed civ side mm-hmm. Uh, of things. So, so they were buying in the intel? Yeah. So like, you know, we were gonna be the, I mean, again, 40 person company, right. I mean, yeah. I think we were north of 6 million.

This was not a very big, you know, organization. Mm-hmm. But they were looking for an Intel platform they were looking to, to buy into the space. Mm-hmm. Um, they had bought another DOD company. To do that too, and the three of us would come together and mm-hmm. You know, go off and do great things. Right. So, so yeah.

So I, I had a two year contract, so I stayed on board for two years, you know, both Ron and I, um, until the, uh, the two year mark was over, this was oh nine. Yeah. Oh nine. Okay. Um, and then at that point, um, we had some non-compete, so, you know, we had to [01:01:00] finish those out. Um, how did you navigate the non NextPoint business?

You just basically couldn't work in the Intel community for a, a period of time. Yeah, so I, we, you know, kind of just sort of did like an OCI Yes. You know, conflict of interest, kind of like, you know. Okay. Just, we won't, I, they looked at it as competition, even though, I mean, it really wasn't, you know, it's fine.

Yeah. Um, so we basically just kind of firewalled ourselves off mm-hmm. From anything to do with NextPoint during that two year window. Mm-hmm. Um, and that's how they handled it and they were good with it and mm-hmm. And, and, and that worked out. Yeah. And you had a little liquidity, so you had a little Yeah.

Little taste of what the exit would look like and Yeah. And I mean, it was a great experience. Mm-hmm. You know, um, going through that again, you know, again, exposure. Right. I mean, so, mm-hmm. You know, I think I was 30, you know, when we sold, and so to go through a sale and then be PE backed and then, you know, experience some board room stuff.

Mm-hmm. Um, I think learning, you know, probably my biggest lesson learned from that was make sure that if you ever do it, make sure the fit. It's truly a good fit culture, culture wise. Yeah. Yeah. Um, understanding the, the [01:02:00] different types of, I mean, just 'cause you're in federal contracting mm-hmm. Huge differences between feds, siv, DOD Yes.

Intel. Yeah. And then even inside those onions, right. Right. Mm-hmm. So, you know, having a PE firm that, that understands your, your business, the, the sales cycle, right? Mm-hmm. Understands the, again, every, I mean, especially, I mean, the IC itself is 17 agencies. Mm-hmm. Right? So, I mean, they're all different.

Mm-hmm. And so I think that was probably one of my biggest lessons learned was making sure that the, the fit is there. That at the same time, I think, uh, depth. Right. Uh, you know, we at NextPoint are, are trying to go deeper mm-hmm. Into our customers, not necessarily going wide. Mm-hmm. Um, I think that can get a little distracting.

Mm-hmm. Um, at the same time you still. Have to give yourself the room to aspire and to do things you haven't done before. Mm-hmm. At the same time, you still gotta kind of stick with what you know. Right. And it's a balancing act, right? Mm-hmm. You know, um, and it's a moving target mm-hmm. On so many levels too.

But, but I think you really gotta stick with [01:03:00] what, what, what, you know. Mm-hmm. And then go deeper and, and, and, and drive, and drive that aspiration inside those organizations. Mm-hmm. So that was a big lesson learn because, you know, going through the coding there was DOD and then there was Intel and there was Fed Civ.

And even I think at the, when I, when I, when I departed, we were just 80 million. Right. So, I mean, that's still a pretty, pretty wide This is the whole PE group. Yeah. Yeah. The whole, you know, the company was about 80 million I think. And so that's just not very big. I mean mm-hmm. We're next, we're, we're that big at NextPoint now.

Right. Um, so, so you were 6 million in an $80 million Yeah. Business at the time. And I mean, we were the smallest of the three. Mm-hmm. I mean, 'cause again, we were just 40 people and mm-hmm. And stuff so. But I mean, but it was a great experience, again, being exposed to, to different things, processes. Mm-hmm.

Bigger company. Um, again, the board, the boardroom was, was interesting as well. Mm-hmm. Um, of, of seeing how PE firms think mm-hmm. You know, from a management consultant perspective and defining markets and owning [01:04:00] markets. Mm-hmm. You know, I mean for, uh, folks that are very tactical Right. In our day to day, you know, the, there's a pretty big gap mm-hmm.

From a tactical person that's an onsite type person all the way to a, someone that's running a PE firm. Mm-hmm. And there's a lot of, a lot of room in between those two things. Did you have any issues with employees transitioning away from the coding, the culture that you created? Into the new culture that this private equity group was trying to create with his portfolio?

Or did, did they allow you to kind of run it as a silo at the time? Yeah, I, uh, I mean for us, no, because again, I think we were, we were kept as a subsidiary. Mm-hmm. Um, one of the reasons why we did like the deal was that we were gonna be a subsidiary. Right. Benefits package. It was so, as seamless as it can be to the employees.

Mm-hmm. I mean, I think that was about as seamless as it could be. Right. Right. So, Ron and I were still running things. We are a subsidiary, we're still coding solutions. Like, so the, the branding was the same. Mm-hmm. You know, the, the back office folks were still the same. Um, and so I think that helped a lot.

Mm-hmm. Now, after two years and, you know, I was gone [01:05:00] and Ron was gone, I think they did start to change things and mm-hmm. You know, as things do happen, benefits change and there's. Things like that. And it, I don't think it went very well. Mm-hmm. You know, post the, the two year mark. Yeah. Similar experience with, with our company when we sold, uh, which by the way, you were instrumental in helping me form that decision by providing me the data around Raymond James, the broker you hired and Yep.

Yep. Who you talked to and what, you know, decisions you went through to allow you to the sell. And, because at the time you, you don't know what you're doing. You're like, Hey, why did you sell? Who did you sell? Who'd you talk to? Right. What were the deal terms? What does it look like? You know, what's the responsibility, what's the tail look like, you know?

Sure, sure. What's the not compete, you're just trying to learn as much as you can. Yeah. And it's like a fire hose. Well, there's not a lot of people that have gone through an acquisition, you know? Sure, sure. I mean, it's, it, it's a whole different art. Right. Uh, it's an art and a science, but like, just having that experience [01:06:00] and it's, it's, you know, very valuable.

Sorry. I appreciate you, uh, helping motivate me to sell my first company. Well, I, I remember, I remember TRS very well and you guys, you know, it was a great company. Um, you know, I, again, I know you mentioned, uh, Chris and stuff, but we really enjoyed working with you guys and I know we partnered up on a couple things and, and, uh, you did some good stuff and it's definitely springboarded you into even bigger and better things too, so.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. It was the, you know, there there's a lot of success and a lot of failure. You, you've learned through trial and error and, uh, you know, again, we're both in this mindset where we just pivot, learn, grow, you know, adjust, keep moving forward. And maybe that's kind of the Gen Xer mentality that we have.

You know, like we just don't care. Like, okay, we'll figure it out. Sure, sure. You know, and what's next? What's next? Yeah, it is what it is. But, but yeah, it was, it was a good time and, um, the decision to [01:07:00] sell was very emotional. You know, my dad worked with me in the company, so I hired him early on, I think it was in oh 4, 0 5.

Mm-hmm. Right when we transitioned from a 10 99 model to W2. W2. Yeah. And we ran that business until oh eight, and that's when we decided to sell, and we took a deal in oh nine. Right. And it took, you know, a good six months to execute. Oh, sure. Yeah. I mean, it's a year long, I mean, process, I mean, it's quick.

Yeah. A lot of people, yeah. A lot of people think like it's like selling a house. No, that's pretty painful. No, no, no. You, there's a lot of work you have to do to prepare for a sale. Sure, sure. A lot, a lot, a lot of, uh, you know, due diligence and Sure. Yeah. Data gathering and reporting and at the same time, not taking your eye off the ball.

You still gotta keep your business growing. You still gotta, so, yeah. I mean, it's definitely a process to, to sell a company. Mm-hmm. Um, and it's, um, it's not hard. I mean, it's not easy. Yeah. No, I, I kind of map that to today's times where companies are [01:08:00] raising money. Which you bootstrapped your whole thing, right?

Yeah. Yeah. No outside funding for either one. We did the same thing. And, uh, but now, you know, CEOs have to raise capital to keep business running, especially in the private sector. And, um, how do you handle both? You gotta run your business, you gotta grow. You're the visionary. You're, you gotta be in there working on the business, same time working in the business.

Yeah. So it's like, it's, it's tough to battle both. Oh, sure. It's a grind. Yeah. I think that probably one of the hardest transitions is, is, is, is maneuvering through the end and you know mm-hmm. You just said in, in the business, out of the business. Right. You know, I think that's, you know, I've, last couple years I've definitely transitioned from working in the business to working on the business more.

Yeah. You know, coming off site and mm-hmm. You know, as we've made some bigger plans to go do bigger things, you, you need the time, right. I mean, I, you know, if you're billing 40 hours a week, and then to be able to get back into an office and, and noodle strategic plans and aspirational plans and mm-hmm.

And do those type of activities. I mean, [01:09:00] you know, unless you wish you wanna work 120 hours a week mm-hmm. There's just not enough, uh, time in the day. Right. And, and, and I will tell you, probably one of the hardest things I've done is to, to, to stop working in the business. 'cause I love it so much. Mm-hmm.

Right. You know, just being an onsite engineer, working on a project, solve problems. Well, you're an operator Yeah. At heart. Yeah. For sure. You know, and you, you like to operate, you'd like to be in, I'm on the side, I'm in the field. Right. Yeah. So you can't do both. Right, right. You're trying. Yeah. Yeah.

Absolutely. Right, right. You know, and I, you know, I've always said that you, you know, you know, you definitely don't wanna part-time a startup and you definitely never wanna half ass anything. Mm-hmm. And I felt like to, to, to give the proper amount of time and effort that it, that the responsibility to that for NextPoint for where we were, we needed, I needed to come off site and to really start thinking about those things.

Mm-hmm. Focus on those things. Right. I mean, filling gaps. Mm-hmm. And we definitely had plenty of gaps and we definitely. Whether that was ip, whether that was strategic hires. Mm-hmm. All those things. 'cause again, these are just, you know, [01:10:00] growth. These are good problems to have. Right. They're growth problems.

Right. Right. And so if we wanna continue to grow and continue to do things mm-hmm. Um, you know, taking the time, you know, to be able to do that was, was critical. Mm-hmm. But it was hard. I mean, I, I probably had two or three false starts of coming off site and then getting the itch mm-hmm. About six months in and be like, oh, I'm gonna go back on site.

Uh, 'cause it's a big transition. Was it emotional for you to sell coding? Oh, for sure. Sort of like it was your baby. 'cause you work on it, you know, all the time and you think about it. Sure. I mean, your heart and soul. Yeah. I mean it's, you know, you know the, I dunno if it's good or bad Right. But the, you know, the identity of an entrepreneur.

Mm-hmm. I mean, you know, your entire identity gets wrapped up into these. These companies and these, these organizations and you know, it's mm-hmm. You know, you, you, you know, you hopefully mature. You know, I remember when I lost my first person, I took it so personal. Right. You know, I felt it was a personal slight, you know?

Yeah. And, um, it, it, it still hurts, you know, even after 30 years in national [01:11:00] security. Right. But, um, but it's definitely easier on some level because again, it's not personal. Right, right. But again, just the feeling you have. Well, it, it's hard. You care, right. Yeah. It's hard. It's hard not to take it personal.

Yeah. Because when you care about something or somebody mm-hmm. Um, and that feeling isn't reciprocal, or well, it's not reciprocated you, you take it personal. Like, you know why, you know, what did I do? Right. You know, so when an employee leaves your company and joins a competitor, you know, you, you do, you get really upset and you're like, wait a minute.

You know, what, what do they have that I don't have? You know, like, were you not happy? Were you not paid? Well. Did you not have the right benefits? Was it the culture? Did I do something to make you mad? Sure, sure. You know, and they're like, no, they just, it's a different project I wanted to change, you know, so it's, it's kind of hard to kind of take yourself outta that mindset and Yeah.

It's just kind of understand it's part of the model, like it's part of life, you know? [01:12:00] Yeah, sure. I mean, people come and go, right? Yeah. I mean, you just seasonal. Yeah. And again, you just hope they leave the right way. I, we even at NextPoint we have tons of, we call 'em boomer hangers, right? Yeah. They, they leave and come back.

They leave and come back. And I think that says a lot too. Mm-hmm. You know, so as long as people keep coming back, 'cause we're not always gonna have the right opportunity for somebody. Right. Or someone's gonna get a, a program manager position. And again, you know, we only have one prime contract. Not to get in the weeds of that, but, but if someone has an opportunity and we can't match it, then, I mean, good for you.

You know? Go for it. I mean, just hopefully, you know, when I call you a year from now mm-hmm. You know, answer my, answer, my answer the phone. And hopefully I can, I can get you back in. Mm-hmm. You know, kind of thing. Right. So, you know, you want people to continue to strive to and, and I think making decisions for the right reasons mm-hmm.

For the people. I mean, whether that's training, that's kind of going back to like fixing things I hate about big companies. Mm-hmm. Right? I mean, if somebody wants training, if somebody wants to make themselves better, then do everything you possibly can to help them, whether they're with next point or not.

Right. Who cares. Right. Right. I mean, again, at the end of the [01:13:00] day, you've got to be doing the things you're supposed to be doing. Mm-hmm. You need to do good things. I mean, like, again, going back to the Golden rule, I mean, like at our core, right? We, we need to, to do that for our folks. Mm-hmm. And again, and if you're doing that, I think it'll come back around.

Right. And I think you'll create win-wins. Right. I mean, 'cause I, I also don't know what the alternative is. Right. If you're not doing what you're supposed to be doing and you're not doing good things, then how can you expect something good to happen to you? Mm-hmm. Right? So, you know, you, I I try to keep it somewhat simple like that too, just in my day to day and kind of my life.

Of just, again, who I am and, and just from a core perspective. So. Well, it's your, your background and how you're raised too. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. You know, and I think, you know, it's, uh, the other thing about NextPoint that I, that I, I love too is our leadership team, right? I, I, I, you know, we, we don't brag on ourselves very often, right?

Mm-hmm. But I think if you, if you drew the perfect Venn diagram of a leadership team mm-hmm. Right? Um, I think what we have at NextPoint [01:14:00] is, is, is awesome. Right? Right. I mean, again, starting with the core, and again, that's the culture, that's integrity. That's doing things for the right reasons. And again, you draw those circles around and you create a Venn diagram 'cause we're not all the same.

Mm-hmm. Because you can't have that either. Mm-hmm. Right? I mean, you, you know, you gotta have the diversity of thought. Mm-hmm. You gotta have the different ideas that come to the table, but you gotta, you gotta be on the same page when it comes to the culture and it comes to the people. Right. And how we take care of them and why we do what we do.

Right. And again, whether that's mission. Doesn't matter what it is. So at what point, post coding. Mm-hmm. You've sold the business, you've worked there for a few years in transition mode and making sure that it's successful. At what point did you start ramping up NextPoint, full time? Um, well for me it was a year after, so probably 20 10, 20 11.

Okay. Uh, because I still had a year, uh, after my two years at, at, uh, the other company. Mm-hmm. I still had a year non-compete kind of tail. Okay. And so at that point, I actually went back to Texas for a year, [01:15:00] started a couple companies down there. Um, just This is your electrical company, right? Electrical company, yeah.

Um, and then we had, um, a heavy hauling company too. Um, doing Do you still operate those? Uh, the electric company's still operating. Okay. Uh, we got my partner down there, Victor, he runs day to day. Um, you know, he's been running the show for, for a long time. Mm-hmm. I just try to help out where I can. And this is, I got, I got my hands full up here.

I, well, you got your hands full everywhere. I mean, it's like you, this is why. You and I get along so well. It's just like our minds work in different ways and you've got multiple op, you know, basically multiple companies that you're juggling almost like an Elon Musk to some degree. But it's, that's a whole nother level.

But yeah, it goes well. No, it just goes back to, to what you love, who you are as a person and what you enjoy doing. Like the cattle business, like the electrical business in Texas, you know, having something that can draw you back to that and doing the government contracting. Sure, sure. So it's part of your DNA, it's your blueprint.

Yeah. So you're just operating based on what you [01:16:00] enjoy, which is great because one thing I've learned in the last couple years is that, you know, if you don't have a passion, something that you're really excited to, to get after every single day, you kind of feel lost. And it goes back to the comment that you made and, and I've, I've written about it, you know, on LinkedIn as far as like your identity, when your identity gets caught up into what you're doing, your business.

And somebody asked you like, what do you do? Uh, nothing. You feel worthless, like, you know. Sure, sure. No, I, I do a lot, but I can't really explain it. Well, what do you do? Like, I don't have a company to say, oh, I work here full time. Right. You know, I do this full time. Right. Because I think, you know, we, especially us, you know, we, we grew up watching our, our family work, blue collar jobs and sweat and toil, and that's just part of life.

That's what we're supposed to do. So if you're not running that script, you feel like you're missing something. Yeah. For sure. So it's important to, to have a mission and have a, have a purpose. Yeah. No, I think purpose is, is [01:17:00] absolutely important, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, you know, you gotta have something that's gonna get you up in the morning that's gonna drive you.

Right. Um, you know, and you gotta be motivated. I mean, I'd also say that, you know, I'm more of a discipline, you know, I think as I've gotten older, um, I listen to a lot of Jocko. Um, um, podcasts. Yeah. Podcasts and stuff. Mm-hmm. And he actually has a great sort of breakdown of the difference between motivation and discipline.

Mm-hmm. And a big fan of that. Right. Because, I mean, motivation's a feeling, you know, I, I, to me it's almost a little external, external too. Right, right. Where discipline is, is internal. Right. That's purpose. I mean, like, so that, that's internal stuff. Yes. And I think that's where the true goodness and impact comes from.

So you may not feel like getting outta bed, but the discipline makes you get outta bed. Exactly. You know, and stuff. So, so I think, you know, equate that also to purpose and, you know, you, you gotta have that. 'cause I think you take that and then the stick to itness, I think the one thing I've always loved about you, Richard, is you definitely have the stick to itness, right.

Because you need that. Mm-hmm. You've gotta have that stubbornness to keep going, to keep going. Stubborn. Yeah. Right? I mean, otherwise, I [01:18:00] mean, when, because I mean, stuff gets hard. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Or you don't understand something. Well, I mean, you, you gotta keep breeding until you figure it out. So, you know, again, having that stick to itness and that stubbornness.

I think is, uh, very important. What's it called? The honey badger mentality. Honey badger doesn't care. It just keeps going. Yeah. I don't think I've ever, I haven't met an entrepreneur who wasn't probably stubborn on some level. Right. And well, there there's a bit of resilience and grit you have to like, to create and Yeah.

Manifest over time. And I say I always, always grinding. It's kind of what of I always Yep. Something I always say and, you know, and I think be gritty. Mm-hmm. Always grinding. I mean, I know some of that stuff's gotten real cliche-ish mm-hmm. You know, and stuff. But, uh, you know, cliches become a cliche because they're probably usually baked in truth.

Right. Right. Mm-hmm. You know, and stuff. So do you operate with a chip on your shoulder? Like do you All the time. Okay. Not as much as I used to. Let's talk about that for a second. Sure, sure, sure. Because I think that's another common element that we share. Sure, sure. [01:19:00] And it, it kind of goes back Yeah. Like early times, early times.

And some people don't really understand how that works. Yep. So, so how, what, what was driving you this whole time? Like what, what, what was the, what was the chip and do? Yeah. I think, um, again, I'll be, I'll be, uh, as Frank and honest as I usually am. Right Richard. I think, uh, um, you know, I grew up, I went to a private school in Houston.

I was very fortunate, my grandmother worked there for 30 years. Mm-hmm. Uh, very influential in my life too. My granny and I went there because of her. Mm-hmm. Uh, so call it a scholarship. Um, and again, kind of blue collar, still middle class. Mm-hmm. I mean, type of thing. Um, but I definitely grew up, you know, uh, around a lot of folks that were very affluent and mm-hmm.

And very well off. Um, and I always had this feeling of just not good enough not measuring up to the mm-hmm. Doctor's son or the lawyer's son [01:20:00] or mm-hmm. You know, things like that. Um, and I just always felt that, and again, I, I think on some level it could also just be. Self-induced. Mm-hmm. You almost kinda have to trick yourself sometimes.

Mm-hmm. Right. Um, but I just always felt like there was, I was just never good enough. Mm-hmm. And I couldn't, and I wasn't at that level, and so I wanted to prove people wrong. Right. I always felt like, uh, um, I think actually my senior year when they did my senior roast, you know, it was a little backhanded compliment of like, you know, in 20 years Kevin's gonna be the janitor at the school.

Mm-hmm. Kind of thing. Right. And I, and that came off probably a little too, um, hard. Mm-hmm. Right. But there was a little bit of, you know, again, that backhanded kind of compliment right there. 'cause there was a lot of goodness that, that they said too. But Yeah. But I think, you know, that perception and all that type of thing, again, Kevin's just a blue collar guy.

If you need someone to come help do something in the yard, call Kevin. But, you know, so I always just felt [01:21:00] like I, you know, I was just, I always had something to prove, so, and I wanted to prove people wrong. Yeah. Yeah. Similar experience. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When, when somebody tells you at an early age, you're not gonna amount to much, or you know, you're not gonna be successful, you'll never hit the goals that you think you're gonna hit.

All it does is just piss us off. It's like, you know what? I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I not only I'm gonna prove to you, but I'm gonna hit that mark, but I'm gonna go three steps further. Right. And make sure that, you know, it's clear that you mess with the wrong person. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. And I, and just, you know, to be clear too, I don't, I don't know if I, because I think back, I don't think anyone ever really told me that or really said those kinds of things.

There was nothing really kind of crappy like that. It was just the, the perception and the feeling I had. Right, right. And, and the, the, the slights, or again, the backend compliments mm-hmm. You know, kind of thing. Right. So, but it [01:22:00] definitely, you know, that definitely drove me. I mean, you talk about fuel, um mm-hmm.

And again, the slights and taking that and. I'm just gonna prove you wrong. I'll work twice as hard. No one's gonna outwork me. You know, all those kinds of things. Right. You know, definitely fuel definitely fueled my twenties. Mm-hmm. Um, and I think part of it too was, is that that's where I also tend to, uh, excel.

Mm-hmm. I mean, that's where I, I, I did do good things. Mm-hmm. I mean, I, you know, I'm not the 1400 SAT guy, right? Mm-hmm. But, but I could work hard and I can, I can make something happen and I can have an impact. Mm-hmm. And so the work was always where I got success and I got, uh, satisfaction. Mm-hmm. Uh, was in working.

Well, you're obsessed, you know, just like the Adam Sandler movie obsession beats talent every day. Yeah. I mean, you know. Yeah. So you could be talented and I know just as well as you did, we, we've hired Ivy League people, you know, and I, I, not that that, I take pride in that, but like here, here's a guy, blue collar background, start a business [01:23:00] working for the national security sector.

You're hiring Ivy League people working for your business. Right, right. You know? Right. That's that's pretty phenomenal. Yeah. You know, when you hire somebody from Cornell or from Yale or Princeton and they're like, huh,

sure, sure. They're working for a guy from Appalachian State, you know? Yeah. It's like, that's very interesting. Right, right. Um, but um, but yeah, you, you can't tell people like us that we won't do it right or we can't do it. Right. You know, just all it does is just adds fuel to the fire. Sure, sure. Keeps it going.

Yeah. And I think there's also something to be said about the independence. You know, I definitely have an independent streak. I dunno if that's just the Texan that, that comes outta me, we're pretty proud. Is that like a can't deal with authority type thing, or, uh, not so much that, you know, 'cause again, I, I think, um, again, with the military mm-hmm.

I mean, I was okay with it at the same time. You know, I, I definitely, when I was younger, you know, I didn't like, you know. Don't tell me not to do [01:24:00] something. Right. You know? I mean, but it wasn't so much like, you know, authority. Right. I mean, yeah. Again, I went to a private school for 13 years. I wore uniform for the fir 13 years at St.

Thomas. Four years, I mean, 17 years of my, my life I wore uniform. Was this Catholic, uh, compan PIs paint. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, it wasn't so much, you know, again, you know, I, I want to rebel against authority. Mm-hmm. Um, but again, I also just, you know, don't put me in a box. Right. Don't tell me I can't do something.

Mm-hmm. Um, uh, that definitely provides plenty of fuel. Mm-hmm. For sure. Absolutely. Yeah. So early two thousands, was that 2012 you said? Or 11 you started ramping up? Next one, yeah. 2011 is when I kind of came back from Texas. Family and family and I moved back up here. Mm-hmm. Um, and, you know, we kind of finally, we really got the band back together fully.

Right. You, Ron and everyone, Ron Beth, you know, uh, Scott Graham, my other partner. Mm-hmm. Um, and you know, so this, this current NextPoint run's really been since 2011 till now. Right. Yeah. [01:25:00] So, and you guys are over 200 employees now? Yeah. We're pushing, uh, 300. 300 employees. 300, yeah. Yeah. It's much different than 40, right?

Yeah. Much different. I mean, it's still not, you know, something crazy, but I mean, relative to where we were before, what's been the biggest, um, challenge of growing or scaling a business from like 40, 50 to 300? Uh, besides just managing the growth. Mm-hmm. Uh, I mean, the people side, I think the biggest challenge of, of just keeping our culture.

I think the, trying to keep the culture that we had at 5, 10, 15, and 50 people, but yeah. Even now closer to 300. Right. Um, that's the, that's the biggest challenge. You, you still do a good job of that? I, I see the post about your, your, yeah, I think so. I mean, also party parties and things. Right. I mean, I think that, again, we, it's choices.

I mean, again, we can either choose to pay good money, we can choose to provide the right training, we can choose to pick up the phone when they call. Mm-hmm. Right. I mean, our, our SSG back office, I mean, the response time is the same as it [01:26:00] was when we were five people. Mm-hmm. Right? I mean, people get back to people.

I. I mean, this is, we're in the people business, right? We don't make things, we don't do widgets. Right. Our, our true asset are our people. Mm-hmm. And so taking care of them is, and so the biggest challenge is, is as we've grown, not to forget where we came from, uh, to forget to get the distractions, uh, well this is too hard.

Or here's the easy button, right? Instead of doing that, let's, you know, we'll just outsource this, or we'll cut that. Mm-hmm. Right? Because it's too hard now. Mm-hmm. Right. Well, no, let's just get more people in here to help. You know, if we got too many bags to put together for a holiday party, well then, you know, have, have more folks come in here and help build those bags.

Mm-hmm. Right. Um, little things like that too. Right, right. Um, I think the other challenge is on a business side is really trying to, you know, for the first 15 years of NextPoint, we just really wanted to be the best sub we could be. Mm-hmm. And I think that's pretty. Common in our space around smalls and mids, subcontract, subcontractor.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Taking, you know, [01:27:00] being the best, uh, sub you can be to your prime, taking care of your people and all that. Uh, but then we woke up one day and we had well over a hundred people at our Bain customer. Mm-hmm. And there was just a bunch of like, well, why not? Mm-hmm. Go after that contract. Mm-hmm.

You know what I mean? Again, in our space, being over a hundred people is really not small. Mm-hmm. You know, um, it's not, again, we're not Lockheed Martin, but it's not small. And so we kind of woke up and said, you know, I think we wanna try some stuff. Mm-hmm. Let's go after some prime contracts. Let's, let's try to take down some bigger chunks of work.

Mm-hmm. And what we quickly realized is that after all these years, we're not really known for something from a technical perspective. Like there's a lot of other companies out there that are known for software development, cross domain services, you know, things, things like that. In the compartmentalized world of a, of a proposal, you know, you gotta be able to show.

What's your approach on how you're gonna solve this problem for a customer? What's your methodology? Mm-hmm. And so we never really did those kinds of things. 'cause you know, we just wanted to be the [01:28:00] best sub take care of our people. And so the last five years has been a major push and really a lot of catch up.

Mm-hmm. On IP type things, solutions, our methodologies. How do we, how is NextPoint Group going to develop a software application? Mm-hmm. 'cause we gotta be able to answer the mail for a proposal. We can't just say, because we're a bunch of good, good folks. Mm-hmm. And we got good folks. And like, trust me, I mean, that's not gonna work.

You're not gonna win many contracts with that approach. Mm-hmm. And so I think the acceleration of that, it's almost been like another little mini startup. Right. Like 15 years in because now it's like, okay, we gotta get aspirational. We gotta get in this room when, you know, we've gotta start noodling. This let's you know, let's hurry up and get through version one, version two of this methodology.

How are we gonna scope work in this agile environment and mini, you know, and bucket this work, you know, things like that. Mm-hmm. So I think taking care of people as we've grown and, and, and even more, I mean, I'm still, we, we still, that's what, that's what keeps us up at night mm-hmm. Is that as we get to 500 people [01:29:00] and a thousand people, can we still have the same culture that we have even now?

Mm-hmm. Or when we had it 50. Mm-hmm. Um, and I think that's a challenge we've taken on. Uh, I hope that we continue to do those things. Um, I don't see why we're not, but you know, again, you know, there's real challenges when you get big like that mm-hmm. There and stuff. So, yeah. What's been the biggest failure with next point that you've learned from?

Biggest failure that we've learned from? Mm-hmm. That's a good question. Um, I think taking too long to do some of those bigger company things. Mm-hmm. Right. I think, you know, when I look back, you know, with my role, should I have started that even years before? We should have really looked at how we do methodologies and how we do capabilities, we should have, we should have built some solutions.

We really should have got a better hold on ip. Mm-hmm. Um, much sooner. Mm-hmm. Um, I mean, outside of that, I mean, again, I think from a people standpoint and our culture, there's really not much I would change. [01:30:00] You know, we just wanna keep fighting the good fight and taking care of folks. Mm-hmm. Do you have the board of directors or advisors that you lean on to kind of help scale the business as far as the future growth?

Uh, we do now, actually, we just this year we actually, uh, finally rolled out a board of advisors. Mm-hmm. Um, and we just actually had our first meeting two weeks ago. Okay. Uh, and it was tremendous. Um, I think it's gonna be a major game changer, uh, for us just in understanding the context, understanding the atmospherics mm-hmm.

Especially of our agencies, uh, to get that type of, um, insight mm-hmm. Into where things are going. Um, you know, again, 'cause we care about those things now, I can't say we did 10 years ago mm-hmm. As a sub on this over here. You know, I mean, again, that that's, you know, I don't, you know, we're not really tracking on the budget of an entire directorate.

Mm-hmm. Well now, you know, we kind of care. Mm-hmm. And like, and like where, where's that going and mm-hmm. What does the director care about? 'cause that's probably gonna impact what we're gonna need to go do. Right. Um, and so it's been, it's been great. And in addition to that, we've also kind of created this sort of [01:31:00] strategic advisory cadre.

Mm-hmm. That's, uh, you know, maybe a step, not, not a step below, but again, uh, a larger, uh. Cadre of consultants mm-hmm. That are formers that can really help inform us, because like for us at NextPoint, that user experience mm-hmm. And, and ux, UI and UX gets talked about a lot. And I think, you know, and in our space there's a lot of companies that do a good job of that.

Mm-hmm. But for us, like that's really critical. Mm-hmm. Right. We have a lot of brilliant developers and, and engineers at NextPoint, but the user experience, because that's where you get to the problem. Mm-hmm. Right? I, nothing, nothing gets me more fired up than when I go to a meeting and the customer's like, here are my requirements.

And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, chief, let's, let's, let's back up. Let's talk about the problem first. Because a lot of times it's the, the, the answer isn't even tech. Mm-hmm. It's a policy issue, it's a training issue. And it's may, maybe that's bad for business as a tech company. Right. But, you know, again, let's talk about problems and then we'll get to requirements mm-hmm.

And then we'll get to solutions. [01:32:00] Mm-hmm. So I think the, having these cadre of officers that are former SIS officers across different directorates, again, getting that. That perspective because again, whether you're in support or you're in innovation or you're in operations, all those aspects are, are very different.

There's those, those are different cultures in of themselves. Mm-hmm. And having that understanding so that when we go build an application, let's make sure that we're building that application with the analyst in mind. Mm-hmm. Right. And so we also take a very deliberate approach in, in who we bring onto our teams Now, where we bring those folks on.

Actually one of our, one of our programs, we, uh, had two software tester positions. We actually brought on two very senior analysts from the analyst side of the house. Both brilliant, didn't know how to do software testing at all, but they'll figure it out. Mm-hmm. But what they're really there to be is our user experience, uh, experts.

Right, right. And so, um, and again, it's great for them too because now they've got a higher ceiling for their own career. Now they've moved from the analyst side over the technical side, [01:33:00] higher rates, you know, all that stuff. And so it's a win-win. So do you have any concerns with, um, current.

Administration's efforts to reduce cost, you know, both the DOD um, cutbacks and some of the layoffs? Um, not really. I, I don't really have any concerns 'cause National Security's pretty insulated. It is, yeah. I mean, I mean, as much as it can be, right. You know, um, if, if I was in feds I probably would be more worried.

Mm-hmm. Um, but I think in national security, pretty well insulated. Um, and again, it's just very mission focused. Mm-hmm. Um, I think that's, that's what drives all of us. And I think when you walk in those doors, it doesn't really matter what you think and what you feel. Mm-hmm. At least it shouldn't, uh, because again, you're coming in to work the mission.

Mm-hmm. And again, whether that's DOD, going back to my Navy days or the 25 years I've been directly involved in Intel. Mm-hmm. Uh, it's mission [01:34:00] first and there's no time for anything else. Right. Right. I mean, it's, yeah. So what's the future plans of NextPoint? Are you guys gonna, uh, raise capital and start buying other companies through a roll up strategy, or are you looking for an exit?

Like what's the future look like? Uh, well, I mean, growth for sure. Um, right now we're kind of focused on work shares, uh, immediately. Uh, we, a couple years ago we hired, uh, uh, Brandon Ginsburg to be, uh, our chief Growth officer. I think you know Brandon, right? Mm-hmm. And, uh, we had a huge gap in sort of that mature business development kind of, uh, understanding experience, the Shipley model mm-hmm.

All that type of stuff. And so now with that to again, this progression and, and again, driving towards our new plan mm-hmm. The negotiating large chunks of work share again, 20, 30, 40, 50 FTE type sizes, and then looking to go prime more and more work, um, is definitely our immediate future. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, again, I've, I've, you know, as the Chief Strategy officer, I [01:35:00] definitely have some very, very deliberate and very focused areas that I would want us to, to, to work in and be a part of, um, if that makes sense. That makes sense.

Mm-hmm. But I think for us, we have one prime, uh, we need to get to the proverbial three because when you, when you go after primes, you need three past performances. Right. So, so even then, it's still a, you know, a strategic plan. Right. But with, with tactical execution Right. And tactical steps. Mm-hmm. Um, because you gotta chunk it up.

I'm a big chunker. Mm-hmm. You know, we gotta do bite-sized chunks, building blocks, lily pads, all that kind of stuff. Right, right. You know, I mean, it's just, that's just the way my brain works too. Yeah. So, yeah. Well, it, like I said, it's very impressive to see what you've accomplished in your career and multi-dimensions and multi industries and, but, but again, it goes back to those building blocks that you learned early on from your family and from life experience and from the military and how.

Through trial and error, you learn to just pivot and move forward, have some success, and then you can Yeah. Sure. Kind of pivot in the other [01:36:00] areas, which is great. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think there's also, so to be said about reading, you know, I think, uh, I don't read as much as I used to. Mm-hmm. Uh, mainly 'cause of podcasts.

Uh, you know, you don't have to Right. Maybe as much as far as content and Yeah. And learning, but I think I do. I am a firm believer in that there, there is a nugget to be gleaned from any situation, any encounter, any exposure that you can have. Mm-hmm. I mean, again, good bad, whether you believe it, you think it or not, there are definitely nuggets that can be learned and pulled from.

Mm-hmm. Any situation. Mm-hmm. And again, try to the best of your ability, file those away. Hopefully you remember 'em right. When you need to. Mm-hmm. Um, but I mean, you know, again, you should always be learning, right. I mean, the day I get comfortable is probably the day I need to shut it down. Right, right.

Because I like to be uncomfortable. Um, because again. You're alive. Well, that's where growth happens. I mean, yeah. I just, yeah. I mean, you can't, you can't be complacent and grow. You have to Yeah. Be in a state of uncomfortability. Yeah. And, and just pushing yourself. Yeah. And, and I just, and you gotta be okay with that.

Mm-hmm. Right. And I think that's [01:37:00] probably a little bit of a separator right. From folks. Yeah. You know, some folks are willing to be uncomfortable and some aren't. Um, and again, that's okay too, but Right. You know, so, so I know personally we've talked about, you know, organizing family offices and doing different things because we have interest in different areas.

And, um, kind of pivoting back to the farm mm-hmm. Business, I know that you talked about launching yet another venture with your event center. Yes. So talk about that. Yes. Um, you know, so we, we talked about the farm and our cattle operation mm-hmm. And hay. And, um, there was another property. 'cause one of the things that's also near and dear to my wife and I.

Is to ensure that development doesn't really take over all of Northern Virginia. Mm-hmm. And so, you know, we have, definitely have our own little personal crusade to, to purchase as much land as we can around our farm. Mm-hmm. Uh, put it in proper easement, whether [01:38:00] conservation easements and there's a bunch of those programs out there mm-hmm.

To ensure that property doesn't get developed and that it's there. Mm-hmm. You know, like obviously when we're not here, but for our grandkids. Mm-hmm. And again, from a generational standpoint. Mm-hmm. And so with that, there was another property that kind of sits between our two of our properties, uh, 94 acre property farm, and we're gonna start a, a wedding venue, uh, event center.

Mm-hmm. Um, in addition, we're gonna, you know, it allows us to expand our, our cattle operation. Right. Our hay operation. Um, you know, 'cause being grass finished. Grass fed. I mean, we don't do chemicals, we're not feeding grains, we're not fattening them up with corn. Anything like that, you know, it's just, it's, it's a math problem.

Mm-hmm. I mean, we need more acreage. Mm-hmm. And so that's gonna allow us to expand those operations at the same time, you know, give everybody, you know, a little taste of, of the plains in Middleburg. Mm-hmm. You know, for the event center. And, and I think for the family, it's also a, a, it'll be a great venture, uh, for hopefully, again, we'll see mm-hmm.

One of the kids to, uh, you know, to take over at [01:39:00] some point. Right. You know, and stuff. So, so we're definitely looking forward to it. Um, we're calling it the, uh, gone away experience. Okay. Uh, gone away as a term for, uh, uh, uh, hunting, fox hunting. Mm-hmm. Which is very popular up in the Beberg area. Mm-hmm. And so gone away I think is when, uh, you know, like the fox leaves the coop.

Right. Um, so, you know, we've got this sort of gone away, full, full rebrand. Mm-hmm. You know, we actually, uh, our farmers' horns and hens farm that we currently have, but we're switching to this sort of gone away theme. 'cause we also have a stables, you know, with a 2020 stall barn there with a, with a trainer that leases it.

Mm-hmm. So we've got the, the horse facility, we've got the cows, we've got the chickens. Now we'll have the, the the gone away house. Right. Which will be the wedding venue. And, uh, you know, it's, it's definitely a big one. I mean, uh, you talk about being uncomfortable Yeah. And you talk about leverage. Yeah.

Right. Which I know you, you can understand. Yeah. Um, but I think we're, we're pretty excited, uh, you know, [01:40:00] and my wife's been leading that effort, uh, as well, um, and doing a, a great job. Mm-hmm. Uh, it's a big one. Um, she's over there. I mean, it's like nine o'clock at night and I'm like, honey, like I want to go to bed.

Right. You know, or at least go home. Right. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Um, so she's definitely all in and so we're pretty excited about it. When are you planning to break ground? Well, I mean, it's. We don't, well, let's, let's, there's a barn there. Mm-hmm. And so we've demoed that. And so as far as like building out the interior Okay.

Probably a couple months to, to do the reception barn. Mm-hmm. We've been focused on the main house, which is where again, the bride would get ready in the groom and mm-hmm. And it's been pretty minimal construction. 'cause the, the previous owner did a great job of the house. Right. He was a commercial builder too.

Mm-hmm. Um, and so that'll be ready soon and, we'll, you know, there'll be a little Airbnb mix going on with, with the main house. So like, that should be ready I would think. You know. In the next month. Yeah. That's cool. And then we'll break ground on the reception barn, 5,400 square foot barn. So, you know, good size.

Mm-hmm. [01:41:00] You know, we'll we will do a three, 400 capacity mm-hmm. You know, type barn, but you know, as you know, that'll take six months to a year. Mm-hmm. And we gotta do county stuff and permit Yeah. Permits and all that. Yeah. Takes a long, long time. Yeah. That's inspections. Yeah. Yeah. That's fun. Yeah. Well I wish you all the luck on that.

Yeah. If you need some, need, some pointers, let me know. Yeah, I definitely, probably will. Right. Um, yeah. Yeah. That's definitely been a learning curve, but, uh, yeah. But we're looking forward to it. And it's a beautiful property. It's actually got a, a grainery barn on it Oh cool. From 1915. Yeah. And, uh, I think that'll be a great place to take pictures and mm-hmm.

And stuff. So we're, we're definitely looking forward to, to that. Well, sounds awesome. I can't wait to come out and take a tour of the, of the farm. Yeah. It gates open all the time. Alright, sounds good. Well, thanks again for coming in today. I really appreciate it making the travel. Trip down. Yeah, thank you.

And um, hope you enjoy the rest of your stay here in Surf City. Yeah, I will. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. You bet. Thanks.

Amplified, CEO is [01:42:00] produced by Topsail Insider. This episode is edited by Nomadic Orca and sponsored by Cape Fear Ventures. For more information about Amplified CEO, Richard Stroupe or Cape Fear Ventures, please contact Christa at (910) 800-0111 or christa@topsailinsider.com.