Scott Moody | AuthenTec, K4Connect, and First Talent Ventures

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Amplified CEO with VC and serial entrepreneur, Richard Stroupe, with today's guest, Scott Moody. He's the co founder of Authentec, which was acquired by Apple and is now it's Touch ID technology. He's the co-founder of K4Connect, and he's the Chief Mission Officer and Managing Director of First Talent Ventures. Well, Scott, it's great to see you again, Richard. It's great to be here. I very much appreciate the invitation. Yeah. Thank you for stopping by. I really appreciate it. It's been a few months since we last got together. So what's keeping you busy these days? Well, actually, a lot of things, you know, I retired back in May for the second, right?

Yeah. For the second time, I, uh, You know, I had started another company and it was, you know, acquired, it was down in Florida. We moved here to Cary and originally, you know, I had retired and told people, um, you know, I never would work again and double swore that, you know, I would never do another startup.

And about a year later, [00:01:00] I, you know, I did another startup. I felt called on a trip to Rwanda and, um, ended up coming back and within a couple of months started a company, um, was supposed to retire in. 2020. But then there was something called COVID. I don't know if you've heard of that. I might have. Yeah, that kind of impacted that idea.

And so I ended up riding that out through, you know, May of 23. And I'm sorry, May of 24. And, uh, you know, I've been retired. And it's been an interesting experience. I said I would never work again the last time. But honestly, as I look back, I think I really did plan to do something. Right. And I was just looking for what that was this time.

Like, I really mean it. So it's been a interesting time of not only just decompressing, you know, I'm an all in kind of guy. And then really, what does retirement mean? And you know, when you're an entrepreneur, and you're working 6070 hours a week, and you're really working all the time, because you're always thinking about, you know, [00:02:00] work and what you're doing, and the people you serve.

And all of a sudden you don't have that. You know, there was really a break in the last couple of months where we went on some vacations and I wasn't checking my phone every five minutes, right? I didn't feel like this urgent need to not only check my phone but to respond to a note even if it wasn't urgent.

And so it was really a break for me. And like, after those vacations, it was like a much more relaxed time for me. And really more time to think about what do I want to do when I retire? So the first, the first time you retired and you took some time away and you decided to go back again and start another venture, I actually just wrote about this yesterday on LinkedIn.

As far as like, I wouldn't call it an entrepreneur's curse, but you know, when you're in the thick of it, you know, you're in the battle, you're working day to day, you're handling your business, you kind of get addicted to the chaos and the ups and downs of the business and the cycle. And but after you hit the milestone that you're working towards, you know, whether it's a sell or [00:03:00] exit or acquisition or whatever, and you step away, there's an emptiness.

There's a feeling of emptiness and for me, you know, and others, it's, you know, kind of depressing. Unless you're prepared to kind of transition into other areas, you find yourself in this kind of gray zone where you don't really know what to do or how to handle the, you know, the feeling of having nothing because then you feel as if you have nothing to offer.

You feel worthless. You know, no, it's true. I mean, the fact of the matter is, is that many of us, right. And I've seen it in others to a very negative effect in their own personal lives is this idea that you're identified by your work. Yeah. So when somebody asks, what do you do? You tell them about your job and all of a sudden you're, what do you do?

And it's like, well, uh, nothing, you know, your identity. Yeah. To a large part, you know, goes away. And really, for both times when I retired, um, but particularly the second, is not only did you leave that behind, but my whole life was wrapped around my [00:04:00] work and my family. Correct. I, I gave up everything else.

Mm hmm. I didn't have time to play golf or hang with friends or Right. Go fishing, you know, or anything else like that. And so my life was wrapped around my work and my wife and three daughters. And so, you know, I found my hobbies to be the things that my daughters like, not what I like. And so now as you get older, I'm 68 next month.

It's like, okay, my daughters are grown. And so it's not like you're, we spend a lot of time, two of them live here, but you know, it's not like when they were kids. And so you really have this void of, you know, , there's no job, there's no day-to-day activity with your children and, and family, right? Mm-hmm . And so you come into this like, what do I do now?

What's my value? How can I contribute to, you know, making the world a better place? And a lot of people say, well, you can play golf and you can do this, and you can do that. And I'm like, I'm not trying to find things to fill my time. Mm-hmm . I'm trying to find things to still create value and, and to have a purpose for all [00:05:00] the, have a purpose for all the blessings I've had in life.

life and and not just sit back. It's hard to articulate those feelings because there's only a few of us that have gone through that journey and are sitting in that position because you're absolutely right. You know, when you devote your entire life, 20, 30 plus years to work and family, I. E. Kids, right?

Kids activities. You know, what do kids want? What do they need? You know, basically serving them. And then when the kids leave the house, emptiness syndrome sits in and you have no job. And it's like, what am I gonna do now? You have to reinvent yourself. That's me personally. I've had a lot of, um, challenges, I guess you could say, adopting to new industries, you know, like, like this podcast, something new, you know, just to try to fill the void, I guess.

But, but it's interesting, you know, the technology. Cause you're, you're a technologist as well. And I'd love to pick your brain on a few things, but I, you know, obviously with the technology shift and the AI and your background in semiconductors, I'm sure that gives you something to look forward to as far as just keeping track of all the generative AI technology.

the impacts on [00:06:00] society and what's happening around the world. I mean, it's, it's insane. No, it is. It's one, it's interesting. And you have this opportunity to study things more than you may have, right? You kind of, you're so busy all the time. It becomes so technically oriented. You know, you don't really have the time to look in depth and things, but it's not really just keeping up on things, but you know, how can I little old me still have an impact on the human race.

And so that. You know, I've created some value in my time on earth and there's a lot of things going on right now from the environment. You mentioned AI, which is going to have a much more dramatic impact on our society than any technology in the past. And then even, you know, there's a pretty serious.

issue with kind of wealth and the finances of the globe, if you will, and just such a significant difference between the haves and have nots, which is really expanding. And I think, you know, I look at all those three things, AI and technology, wealth, and the whole [00:07:00] idea of the environment is like really three big things and how do I have any influence on any of them?

And that's kind of what I'm trying to zero in on now. Yeah, it is interesting how technology can shape, and in this case reshape, the job market, the economy, and including inequality. As far as you're mentioning the haves and the have nots, you know, just last night, I got a text message from a friend who works at Accenture and he was telling me that Doge, now they're in the DOD and the cutbacks and things that some of these integrators like Deloitte, Booz and the like, um, are all now starting to cut back.

Honestly, I believe the cutbacks were coming anyway. If you look even the last two years, a lot of these large companies had already started cutbacks because they're adopting technology. They're, they're leaning. the back office and overhead because they're getting smarter. They're using technology software, AI to automate key functions that normally a human being would do.

And even looking back hundreds of years ago, I mean, farmers was a [00:08:00] huge economy to be a farmer. When the plow was introduced in the tractor, now all those jobs started to decrease because you didn't need, you know, as farm hands. And I think the same thing's happening today. Someone once told me, he's like, Oh, you know, AI is going to replace people.

And I'm like, no, I don't think so. I think the people that are going to be replaced are the ones that do not adapt to AI and learn the AI tools and become more AI friendly. Those individuals will replace the ones that do not, you know, kind of adhere to the new standards. So it's interesting how.

Technology can, can shape the, the industry on a continuing cycle. Honestly, I probably disagree with you, right? I think it'll have a material impact on society economically, both to individuals and places like Wilmington. I mean, I think of all the startups that are here and the kind of software, SaaS products they develop.

A lot of those are going to be able to develop by AI capabilities. And so, and then the other thing is, is okay. So a lot of companies that talk about, you know, they're an AI company, they're really not developing the core [00:09:00] AI, you know, algorithms and semiconductors and all the products, but they're using it, which is great.

But the fact of the matter is, is that, you know, the agents, they may be developing for a specific industry. I think at some point it's going to be taken over by AI, by the big companies, right? Which is why they're pouring money. And those agents will be developed specific for all these various different industries, leaving very little for the common developer to really work on.

But do you, do you think some of those professionals could be retooled? Cause I have to believe that. Yes, AI can replace functions and individual roles that are defined today. However, there's going to be new roles defined in the future. So could the farmers have, like, picked a better farming job and stayed in the job, right?

Like, they got displaced, basically, and, you know, were absorbed by other industries. Automotive. For kind of the industrial thing where you were, you still had people working. And so, you know, in fact, I [00:10:00] saw this, uh, the documentary it's running on Netflix now, and it's about Gates and it's like five big things.

One of the things they were talking about was AI. And so at the end of it, he said, people were just going to have to get used to having more time. And what do they do with their leisure time? And they had this cartoonish thing up on the screen and it showed people at the beach, like having a good time.

And I'm thinking, like, who's going to pay for that? How can they afford to go? We're all driven by work as our purpose, like we've talked about. Not only are you taking your purpose away, what do I do is the whole idea of, like, you're taking my financial resources away. I do think it's going to be Now, I think you can, I call it responsible AI, which is It's not uncommon.

One of the things that I think, look, I think a lot of the things that are going on in the government right now probably needed to be done, but over time and with more thought, not like let's disrupt it and build it back up again. Because in the meantime, people lose their jobs, clinical trials get canceled, [00:11:00] right?

You know, uh, food lines are stopped, right? Like all of these other things are. are happening that don't happen when you do the same thing to Twitter. And so everything in my life, whether I do a good job at it or not, right, just to throw that caveat in, is really guided by my faith. And I believe companies really are here to serve others, not just one constituency, the investor.

And so now it's all about creating wealth, which can be created without creating any value to the human society whatsoever. I think Bitcoin's a perfect example of it. You know, Bitcoin's using way too much power and create this unbelievable wealth and haven't created any value. They haven't raised crops, they haven't built a software product, they haven't built a car, they haven't built a building.

There's really no human value. And there was a time when wealth was kind of associated with the value you create. And now it's just Wealth [00:12:00] creation, which is really leading to this giant inequality of, you know, financial income. And it's going to be exacerbated, I guess, because now that you see all these major cuts from the government and whether you agree or disagree with how the government was spending that money, you know, some of those interesting programs that we won't really talk about, but there's a lot like USAID.

I mean, how many 20,000? 40,000 employees. It's not just them. You know, first off, these things are being done without empathy for the people that are being impacted. That's an issue that I really have. Like, if we cut this, not only for the 10, 000 people or 12, 000, I think it's a lower number, that are employed directly by USAID, but they give out a lot of contracts.

And those people will be impacted. On the other side of that, they do a lot of good with those contracts. Where it could be, you know, care for AIDS or other things, right, in Africa. It's kind of the soft diplomacy as well of, you know, supporting and caring and showing you care for other people other than yourself.

[00:13:00] You know, I believe, forget about companies, I believe that we're all here to serve others. Not just ourselves. And so, look, you know, you still have a fiscal responsibility to do things. And you have to manage through these. But it's not only is it not being done with no empathy whatsoever for its impact.

But the other thing, it's being done with almost hatred. Like, everybody's a low life scumbag at USA. They stole money, the whole political thing. Like, look, they gave 8 million to Politico just, you know, this left wing communist rag. And it's like Well, the truth is it was 44, 000 and they bought subscriptions.

Now, I particularly wouldn't buy a subscription that was that high, but if you ever bought a Bloomberg terminal and you use that information, they're damn expensive. Thousands of dollars. And so, it's not the politico that we get, right? Or might read an article or two. It's a lot more information, but forget about it.

Let's say it's no, it was 44, 000. Eight million was the total amount the government. [00:14:00] spends through every agency, probably including Congress and everyone else. And so, it's just, you know, mean spirited. Last week, this whole idea of like people ripping off Social Security because there's all these people up to 150 years old getting Social Security.

Well, I looked at the numbers the other day, and the first thing is there was 3. 7 million people, according to that thing, over 110 years old. I am almost sure, if there were really 3. 7 million dead people collecting social security for the last 50 years plus, right? Because remember, they would have gotten it starting at 65 to now that there are 110 or 160.

Somebody would have said something. And the truth of the matter is I had an issue with social security. When they took the social security paper forms and typed them into the computer, there were mistakes made. And one of the mistakes. was they misspelled my first name. Now trying to get that fixed. I had a card that had my name right.

I'm like, look, it's, it's me. No, that's not what it's in the system, right? They spelt my [00:15:00] first name wrong. So I tried to do it online. I tried to do it on the phone. That was like two calls of roughly six hours each, uh, three hours each because I had to wait in a queue to talk to somebody that said, no, that's, you know, there's nothing we can do.

And I went down to the office. Set up an appointment. Right. Went in. The guy figured, you know, it was two minutes. Like, oh, this happens. Made 400 photocopies of everything I brought to show my name, . Yeah. Right. Like, I'm here. Yeah. You know, really well done. Right. So instead of like going out and saying, why is this data look like this?

People put it on Twitter or X and say, look at this. You know, somebody's ripping us off. It's, you know, look at these low life scumbags, right? Like, everybody is, it's done with hatred. And I know people in USAID. And they are hardworking people that generally take that job because it pays lower than the jobs they can get in the commercial side.

They take those jobs because they actually care about people. Now, maybe there were too many. Maybe we shouldn't [00:16:00] have this program. That's all legitimate. But I really dislike the, you know, the hatred that we're fostering versus showing any empathy whatsoever. The decisiveness in the political spectrum is, it's a little much.

It's been that way for a while. I mean. No, it's, it's both sides, right? Like I get the people. Yeah. Right. D, I, I do actually think. The concept is important, but it got to the point where, like, if you said something, you were aggressively cancelled, like, you're a lowlife. So, I don't want to be talking politics here, right, but it's just, it's a mean spirited, on both sides.

And it's not about the left or the right being You know, necessarily mean spirit. It is a thing with whosoever can is in power. Often that power, they act just like the people that they didn't like when they were in power. Well, we talk about the impact of technology. Here lies another example. You know, the political spectrum has been amplified.

dramatically because of tools like Twitter or X [00:17:00] now or social media where individuals now have a platform that they can spew whatever thoughts that come to their mind. Then you can speak to, you know, kind of like you surround yourself with people like minded like yourself. So whereas back in the day you could hear thoughts from one side, thoughts from another side, you know, and then come up with your own conclusion.

And I try to tell my kids all the time. I'm like, listen, just because you have a viewpoint It doesn't mean that you can't understand the point of view from someone else on the opposite side. That is where diplomacy happens, is you understand the concepts on both sides, and you come to a conclusion. This isn't an arm wrestling contest.

You have to find a way to make all parties feel like they won, is the ultimate goal. But in today's world, when you surround yourself with the far left, or you surround yourself with the far right, you don't hear the other side anymore. All you hear is other people saying the same thing that you believe.

And it's hard to have a decent conversation about certain topics like politics. Versus talking about my career, right? [00:18:00] Um, you know, I worry about this now because, you know, these are conversations I've had with my wife, you know, good friends, right? Now I put it in the public, right? So I can just imagine the, the hate from.

One or both sides that'll be spilled on me associated with this, but, but the fact of the matter is, is that there is an issue and I think it, you know, is strongly perpetuated by social media. I understand the idea of free speech. And so if I want to say something that doesn't lead to. Somebody being killed or just, you know, really something horrible, right, that should be cut out.

It's no different than like writing a letter to the editor. Not every letter to the editor, believe it or not, has been published in the newspaper. Mm hmm. They had a responsibility. So the forms of Twitter and Facebook, I get the idea that you can't look at every comment made and see if it's truthful or not.

The issue is that I do think they bear responsibility when they're promoting that idea. I saw one the other day, right, non political, you know, [00:19:00] and it was, uh, that, uh, Brady had, uh, made a claim that the Kansas City Chiefs had been paid 1 billion to throw the Super Bowl. One billion? Yeah, I think it was, it was a billion or a hundred million or something.

Like a million to a foot. top football player right now is like really nothing. So it has to be a big number. And I'm like, what? Brady didn't say that, right? Nothing. No. And, but the post, I don't know why I saw it, right? The post, I think somebody I knew liked it or something. The post had like 100, 000 likes and bazillion comments.

And if you look at the comments, about two thirds of them were like, Oh my God, I can't believe this happened. I knew it. They played so bad. And you know, really they, they did. Like horrible. Yeah, right. They had one first down in the whole first half, right? It was like 20 yards of offense. It almost felt like they could have thrown it, right?

Or you could say the Eagles defense really was tuned in. No, the Eagles defense was awesome. They [00:20:00] just, yeah, had the best game of the whole year. They killed the front. The front lines were, you know, it was worthless. But that said, what I have an issue with is that Facebook, using their algorithms, promoted that to a whole lot of people, and that's wrong.

Yes. Can somebody make that comment and say that? Yes. If I was Brady, right, he can't, you know, try to sue everybody in the world. But the fact of the matter is, is that Facebook, X, and, you know, the like, do have, I think, a responsibility, despite the law, to not promote something that is blatantly, False. They have some responsibility to do that, right?

It's no different than New York Times putting it or the Wall Street Journal or whatever, putting it on the front page and only sending that to people that they think would be excited and believe that would be truthful. And I don't see Facebook changing that because Zuckerberg is looking [00:21:00] at I need all the advertising revenue I can get to fund my A.

I. and MetaX. Because the only way I'm going to stay up with these other guys is to pour money into this. I don't think it's about wealth in his case. You can't get any more wealth. It's about power. Yeah, right. At some point, the wealth really is power. And, you know, just go back to the Bible, you know, the whole idea of the knowledge tree in the Garden of Eden, right?

It was like when men start to think that they're God. And so the old adage, you know, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts. Absolutely. It's true. It's true for all of us. And you just have to mind that. And now we have a situation where it's just gotten You know, exaggerated, right? Even before social media, like going back into the 80s and early 90s, you know, when I was in high school, I worked at a supermarket in Winn Dixie.

I don't know if you ever heard of it. It's a southern. I worked at the Acme supermarket. Did you? Which is kind of like the Winn Dixie. [00:22:00] Remember the National Enquirer? All this? Yeah, no, of course. Okay. On my breaks, you know, because I was either a bagger, stalker, or worked in produce. But I would always take the National Enquirer because it's entertainment.

You know, you get a 30 minute break for you know, your meal, and it's like, oh, I want to see what crap that they can say. Crazy stuff. And that's kind of like what it's turned into. I mean, based on your description it's like, you could say anything. I remember, you know, UFOs and all this crazy stories back in the day.

Obviously, it wasn't true, or It made you believe like, Oh, my gosh, could this be, you know, something that we should investigate? But half of that stuff, I think most people notice it's kind of like reading the onion today, right? Like, you know, it's a little bit, you know, carried away or satire. Do you read Babylon Bee?

No. You know, I think, again, we're way off here. But it is interesting. And I think it really, to me, where I see the societal issue is AI will move a lot faster than Any other technology we've seen you're back [00:23:00] internet. Yeah, you know Mobile it will dwarf those and it's interesting I always tell people right AI is like something that is in most people's mind is new You know, you read articles about it or history, right?

It goes back people were kind of talking about the idea in the 1950s. I remember when I worked for Harris Helmig and Ucker in the 1980s in Melbourne, Florida, and talking to this company that was developing neural networks. Like, it's not new, and it's been worked on for a long time, but as with many companies and technologies always tell, you know, it, uh, it takes a really long time to be an overnight success.

And so this is being fostered for a number of years and then just blew up, you know, when OpenAI released. You know, three or four years ago, right? I guess three years ago, and now it's just accelerated. It's real. It's helpful. I think you can do unbelievably great things for people in general, particularly in health care is probably one of the greatest areas that it could support.

But you know, the [00:24:00] responsibility is upon Leaders to kind of think this through. And as a society changes, how do you manage that? Right? How do you take people that used to work on a farm and allow them to make a good? living, not just a living where they're also dependent on food stamps, right? Because they get paid so little.

And I've been on that side, you know, my parents were on food stamps when we were younger. So you were from New Jersey, but you attended NC State. Yeah. So, um, you know, I was born in New Jersey. Parents lived in a couple of different places until I was like, Third or fourth grade, moved back to, uh, Jersey, uh, the Jersey shore, um, lived with my grandmother for, uh, a few years and then, you know, they, they bought a house and we're doing well.

My dad, you know, never finished college. I think he didn't finish his first year, actually. And, um, my mother, uh, didn't finish high school and super good people, very smart, hard workers. And my [00:25:00] dad had worked his way up in a couple of companies, SCM, uh, SCM and Olivetti Underwood, which made typewriters the technology of the day.

Right. But he got laid off in 72 with it. Remember the oil embargo and the lines. And, you know, and just without a degree was not able to get another job and I, I just, you know, when he first got laid off, he traveled back and forth to New York from the Jersey shore for like six months. That's a hike. Yeah.

Before he told my mother he actually didn't have a job. He was so embarrassed by it. And so, um, you know, super good people that fell on, on very hard times. And, um, got a, some part time jobs and things like that. Ended up being a, you know, a bartender. And then eventually they bought. Um, you know, a small bar themselves, uh, that, that didn't work out too well, but you know, I, that's why I ended up working at Acme.

I was caddying back then, from when I was in grammar school, but in the winter there was no caddying gigs, loops. [00:26:00] Also, you know, I could only work on weekends, even when the weather was good other than when, when school was in, so I ended up. You know, pretty much working full time at Acme Supermarket.

It was a great job, taught me a, you know, a great, uh, work ethic. So I ended up, uh, everything that, you know, when we were talking earlier, uh, so much of my life has been by happenstance. You know, I do believe in the adage, the harder you work, the luckier you get. But, you know, when people speak often, to me, people in the audience are going like, My God, their whole life was planned out and they did this and that and it was like perfect.

Well, most of those stories are looking back. But you're sitting there going like, my life's all screwed up. How come I'm not like that person? But you know what? That person is just like you. So if you look at, you know, why I went to NC State, for some reason I decided I wanted to go to Duquesne. I wanted to be a business person.

I don't know what a business person, but like, that's what I was going to do and everybody in my hometown, dad did that and my dad used to do that. So I was going to go to Duquesne. Got [00:27:00] accepted. It was the only school I applied to. I went up and it was in not such a good section of Pittsburgh at the time.

It was a good eight, ten hours from my house. And there was nobody on campus on a weekend. There was nobody there. I asked people, where is everybody? And they're like, well, they're either skiing for the weekend, which I knew I couldn't afford, or they went home, which I know I couldn't afford. It was like, I'm not going to school here.

So that was just a visit and my dad was like, why don't you consider NC State? My dad's from North Carolina. His family is from North Carolina. His dad, which was a sheriff, a deputy sheriff in Haywood County, Maggie Valley area of North Carolina. He was killed in the line of duty before my, my father was born.

At his birth, his, his mother died as well as his twin brother. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So the him and his three siblings were traded around, you know, for a while amongst family members in North Carolina, [00:28:00] they were pretty much split up. And then an aunt of his wife's his mother's sister took him up to New Jersey in like 1931 1932 because her husband was stationed in the military up there.

And so, you know, he grew up there. But his idea was like, Hey, why don't you go back to, you know, you know, My roots, right? He always really considered himself a North Carolinian, right? I applied very late, got accepted and got in and it turned out to be really great because my first year I was in economics.

And dude, I hated school. Like I just, I didn't want to be there. I was paying for it all by myself. I was working, you know, my tail off. I was homesick. You know, all my friends were going to school in the Jersey tri state area. But, um, quit school one time, longer story, but ended up re enrolling on Monday. I was very lucky to do that, but luckily I went to a big school, and it gave me the opportunity to, okay, I don't want to be in economics, I don't want to, you know, like, I don't want [00:29:00] to get a master's, which is, from what I could tell, the only way you started to make money, and, you know, that, unless you wanted to be a Frito Lay salesperson.

And there's a story about that. Like I had gone to the, I was, I went to the um, career center and was looking at who's interviewing on campus economic majors. And the only one I found that day was to be a salesperson from Frito Lay. And I worked in a grocery store and I knew what the sales guy was. I'm not going to school this long.

Do the same thing, right? Go back to the surface. Of course, they have a million other jobs, right? But that's the one I saw. And I ended up switching over to engineering. You know, that was fortuitous. Like, and at the time, this is, you know, before the PC was invented, long before Apple. This was the 70s. I thought, you know, technology was things.

People were talking about, you know, I was taking a lot of software engineering courses. And I just went, I thought, you know, engineering is going to be big. Or I eventually took those courses. Software is going to be [00:30:00] big. And if I want to be a business manager, which again, I didn't even know what that meant.

I need to know what people are talking about. I never really wanted it. And I never was a real engineer. But, uh, I understood the language. It turned out to be really good. So how did I go to NC State? Because I didn't know where I wanted to go to school. And I had never been to NC State. I had never been to North Carolina.

And you know, it was a great decision. Met my wife my senior year. And we got married the weekend after I graduated. Is she also from North Carolina? Yeah, she's from Edenton. Okay. And so you can tell there's a real Like, she's really, really nice. Like, I've hardened her over the years, but, you know, uh, my wife is angelic as, as her mother was and daughter of a minister, Episcopal minister.

My dad was a bar. When we got married, my dad was a bartender in New Jersey and her dad was a minister in North Carolina and we got married in a dry County. It was a great wedding, [00:31:00] despite the fact that I got, me and my friends got kicked out of the hotel at 1 a. m. the morning of my wedding. I remember you telling me that sort of premise.

So, um, but, you know, I have truly an angelic wife. We've been married, you know, it'll be 45 years in, in May. You know, I was very fortunate, but I always joke, right? Like, I joke, A couple of things, right? I always we have a moody reunion every year. Take notes. We take pictures. It's really good. You know, 80 to 100 people show up.

My daughters know their third cousins twice removed in their cousins three times, you know, all of that. They all like to go. But I talk about there's the moody's. And then there's the Jersey Moody's, and it's really not that hard to tell. Right. Because down here, they call it a discussion. In New Jersey, we just call it an argument, and nobody really thinks about it.

Right. I grew up as an NC State fan. Okay. I mean, after the 83, you know, NCAA championship with Jim Valvano, it was romantic. Like, if I could describe that whole situation [00:32:00] with Coach Valvano and the whole team, it was special. You know, that period of time. Well, what I tell people about NC State athletics, particularly basketball and football, is, is the one good thing you get out of being an NC State sports fan is you, uh, learn humility.

Right? Because, dude, like, you know, UNC fans or Duke fans, you know, mocking, you're like, dude, like, I know, let me tell you how bad we are. They're all very sensitive about, you know, their teams. Yeah, I grew up in a small town, Western North Carolina, and most of those people were in UNC fans, few Duke fans, and then very, very few NC State fans.

Right. And I was one of the very, very few. So yeah, I understand exactly what you're saying. So out of college, you took a job in semiconductor industry. You said Harris. Yes. And down in Florida? Yes. Okay. And you spent 18 years there. Yeah. That's interesting in itself because now you hear kids coming out of college, they're promoting [00:33:00] entrepreneurship and you see all these contests or business plan ventures and trying to promote new startups.

Walk me through spending 18 years in the industry prior to launching your business. Like what, um, how was that experience? So look, I, I often tell. Groups of students right or individuals like if you really want to be an entrepreneur go get a job Go get a job and learn the market and refine your skills whether it's marketing skills Whether it's sales skills where it's development skills or whatever.

I mean you see a ton of you know, student entrepreneurs And I don't know what they teach you in entrepreneurial school like to me. That's not a trade. That's a You know, talent, if you will, and you can learn it right. And you have to have the personality for it, which most people would consider a pretty questionable talent to be an entrepreneur with a lot of interesting characters, but they're usually the ones that do the best, but, you know, really to learn that.

Skill. And again, you see these graduates come out, they want to be start a [00:34:00] company. And there I see a lot of bar apps, right? Why? Because like, that's what they know, right? And so, and then they're like going and meeting with customers and saying, you know, what do you want? And I've always told people, if you ask a customer exactly what they want, it'll be late and it'll be wrong.

Otherwise they would have started the company. So they usually take a little incremental improvement of something they're already using and saying, if you did that, that would be interesting. But they don't really mention this company does 400 other things. So when you develop that little incremental thing, it's like, well, what about these other 400 things?

You have to really understand industry enough. to really get an idea of what the problems are that they don't even know are problems. That's where you're really developing something that's, that's unique. You know, when you see, uh, deep tech, I mean, that's often about ideas that People hadn't thought of or didn't think were possible.

So they're all based on developments in the past, right? AI wouldn't have been developed without a lot of different things, [00:35:00] right? Coming to fruition. But the fact of the matter is, so for me, though, it was kind of an interesting story. You know, I was working in college and I was working for a company called Cooperative Computing that was kind of inventory management for automotive parts stores and so on and so forth.

You know, I did that and I was pretty much going to take a job with them and moved to Texas for three months and then be assigned to one of their centers, you know, around the country. So I was also getting married and, you know, I thought that was a little bit of a problem because it would, you know, affect Catherine and her ability to get a job because I was only going to take a job in Austin for three months and then who knows where we went.

But the other bigger issue was I had nothing to do for spring break that year and I was broke. And so I happened to see. an advertisement by this company called Harris Semiconductor, who I never heard of before, uh, in the Technician, which is still the student newspaper at NC State, saying they were coming on campus to do interviews and, you know, they had a palm tree and so we're right on the ocean and [00:36:00] so on and so forth.

So I thought to myself, what if I go and interview on campus with that company and get a visit? And maybe I can do that at spring break. So I went to the interview and I got, uh, I got the invite to go down to Florida. Now, normally what they do is they fly you down, you know, one night or afternoon. They put you in a hotel right on the beach.

I can't remember the name of it right now. It slipped my mind. And they would interview you the next day and then fly you home. Well, I talked him into three nights and four days on the beach in Florida. That was, that was my only objective, right? And back in those days, that was like 79 or something, maybe 80.

You know, there were, dancing was still popular in, in bars, right? So they had big bars and they usually had often good bands. And there was this place. If anybody from Florida, right, listens to this from Cocoa Beach, they'll remember a place called [00:37:00] Brassies. And so I went down to Brassie's and I probably got in the morning of my interview about 3am because the bars stayed open till 2 or 3am back then.

And so I went to the interview at roughly 8 o'clock. Oh man. I had no idea what a semiconductor was. Yeah. Which starts You know, it's build process on what's called a wafer. Mm-hmm . I had no idea what a wafer is other than something I ate. Like I was completely ignorant walking into this. And I often joke, like, um, when I give talks, particularly to, uh, youngest and I, uh, younger people, and I, I did this for the, um, graduation speech I gave at my high school a few years ago, right?

Mm-hmm . It was hard to believe I went to work for. a semiconductor company and then started a semiconductor company in Authentech. And my whole time in college, I only took three double E classes. And they all happened to be double E 101. I failed it the first time. Right? I got a D the second. I'm sorry. I dropped it the second.

I got a D the third. But I was smart enough [00:38:00] not to take double E 102. So, there was a guy named John Short. John Short was a great guy. Like some of the inventors of technologies going back to semiconductors to early times, and he had this, like, little office that was piled with papers and everything else, and he smoked a pipe.

And that, and this was back when you could still smoke. And he interviewed me, and it was supposed to last like 35 minutes, it lasted like two and a half hours. I had no idea what the hell he was talking about, apparently I was a good listener. I remember my second interview with a great guy named George Rouse, and his first question was what was the ideal gas law, which I got right.

And then the second one was like, explain queuing theory to me, which I got right. And the third one was like, I can't remember, like, what was the third law of thermodynamics? And I just was like, I'll be honest. I don't remember, but when I get back to school, I can call you, you know, give you the answer. And he's like, that's a great answer.

Like, I was just being a wise ass. I didn't care about this job. Right, right. But they offered me a job. [00:39:00] They offered it at, you know, 20, 000 a year. And the other job I was getting was 12, 000. I'm thinking like, what am I going to do with all this money? So I took that job. And it, you know, I, I bought a bunch of, uh, semiconductor books.

Made by TI. They didn't have semiconductors for dummies back then, right? So like, you know, I start reading these books. I, I went to Florida Institute of Technology, took some double E classes, and ended up moving up in my career in over 18 years, worked from a, like, guy that didn't know what a semiconductor was, to running a division of, of our semiconductor.

That's a great story. So, but it's, it's, but it was happenstance. Like, it was, I was a hard worker. Yes. You know, um, luckily my desire to, you know, uh, party back then, uh, fulfilled my need for a job at the same time. But I, I believe it goes back to the roots from your beginning, you know, where you were born and raised and how your parents treated you and feeling, understanding their [00:40:00] experience in the economy and how things could happen.

And that ingrained a lot of resilience and grit into how you handle your business. And I think that's that's well, it's a look. I'm not a smart guy, right? And I I truly have the great like I said, I believe that there wasn't the only places I didn't do right So I have the grades to prove it, but I do have a lot of heart I have a very strong work ethic and I really care and A few years ago, I used to tell people, right, obviously, I didn't know what the words meant, like, I'm empathetic for your situation, you know, not full sympathy, but I always thought empathy was a lower version of sympathy.

It turns out that's not true. I don't know why, like, Several years ago, I looked up the words finally, and you know, sympathy is a I feel bad. Empathy is when I really feel your pain. And the truth of the matter is, I'm a very empathetic person, which can be a problem at times, right? Like, I have to be really careful with the news, right?

Really careful what I was talking about earlier, right? Where I feel the pain of these [00:41:00] people. But also, another thing comes with Look, uh, older, you have some challenges, but the fact of the matter is, like, I have a lot of experience. And if I haven't been through it in my life, I know people that have. And so that empathy has led to, you know, which I didn't recognize until much later in life, three depressive cycles in my life where, you know, entrepreneurs are kind of up and down.

I mean, it just, it's. It's the way it is, right? Thrill of victory, agony of defeat. Back to the old wide world of sports. Look, I'll tell you, I would have loved to have been an athlete and then a coach. If I had any athletic ability whatsoever, taller, faster, stronger, I would have loved to have been an athlete.

And then I can be the 80 year old coach running up and down the sideline with the veins popping out of his neck, right? Work, to me, was my sport. It was the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat. And, and you go through those cycles. What I look back, more recently, when I was going through my third [00:42:00] depressive cycle, was that I realized, I finally recognized, there was a pattern recognition.

Wait a minute, I felt like this before. And where it's like I was on a down cycle, but then it went. really down. And so as an entrepreneur, you have to pretend like you have to still smile when you go into work and you have to, you know, still plow through. But that's kind of the good and the bad of that is, is that, you know, I really do care, may not feel it like times, right?

As I, I joked earlier, like Moody's not a wholly inappropriate last name, but you know, I am empathetic to people and that's why I feel You know, bad for people that have worked hard in their lives, right? And now we're being, you know, trashed. Absolutely. Spending 18 years in a corporation, you were promoted, you were highlighted, and obviously you made it from beginning to running divisions.

Millions of dollars, hundreds of people. Usually people become [00:43:00] complacent. and comfortable. You're now raising a family. So why decide to start a company? Because it seems to be sort of disruptive, especially in that time frame. So what, what, what made you, what was the aha moment? Yeah. So the company was started in 1998, about an hour and a half before, you know, the dot com crash, right.

You know, in 1980, there was no really, I mean, Intel had started in Fairchild, but nobody knew about them. Right. And, you know, I joke with people. You know, entrepreneur was still just a French word running like so nobody heard of an entrepreneur back then. So everybody went to work for a big company. I can't say that I had the bug and I got into authentic by happenstance as well, but again, saw the opportunity when there.

So it was an activity, uh, I won't go into the details going on in the company where engineers across various sectors. got together and thought up ideas, but they had to find a sponsor to actually fund it. Corporate put the engineers together, but didn't fund it. Like you had to go find a sponsor. So a couple of [00:44:00] my guys were on those teams.

They came to me with this idea of a fingerprint sensor. And, um, you know, this was back in the day when you. You know, still at least wore a suit jacket to work, and I had a nice office. And I just remember Nick Van Vano, who's one of the guys who worked for me, like super smart guy, brought in this other guy from another sector called Dale, his name was Dale Setlang.

Now Dale's a very interesting person. He's probably one of the loveliest men I've ever known. He was a diamond in the rough, truly. Um, but he came in my office, you know, had a, uh, a little bald on top but a ponytail in the back. He had a nose ring and I'm thinking like is this guy like turned out to be smart as a whip.

So the whole idea of a, you know, a semiconductor product that was a fingerprint sensor was like, that's crazy. But um, you know, I knew Nick was smart and I, and I, you know, quickly discovered this Dale guy was like And [00:45:00] so, you know, I ended up funding it through my division, but several months later, you know, before we had anything, we had filed some patent ideas, right?

They were like just provisionals. But the semiconductor sector, which was highly cyclical back then, it's a little now, but not near as much as back then, is um, was going through one of those down cycles. There was three divisions in Harris Semiconductor, and mine was the only one making money. And so when it came up for the planning process, I wanted to put more money into, you know, what became Authentech.

But it got rejected. It was like, we need every bit of your profits to do these other things. So then I came up with the idea of like, Well, why don't we spin off the foundational technology, which hadn't been proven out at all, right? We didn't have anything yet. It was still in design. Hadn't even been taped out.

So, uh, we structured it So the real invention was on its own chip and and the rest of what became a very small chip like you have on your phone was built in these giant [00:46:00] boxes, which we knew that we could scale down to a semiconductor size. So, um, anyway, I talked about the idea of spinning it off and then Harris was willing to support it because they put in 3 million of our first round, which was 13 and a half million.

They were willing to support it because that was a balance sheet play, not a net income play. So. balance sheet cash. That's a whole different discussion than net income. And so we ended up doing, we ended up spinning it off, raised, you know, like I said, 13 and a half million dollars, kind of like the week before we closed the lead investor, which was going to be bank America ventures pulled out.

Right. So that was a scramble. I remember having dinner with my wife and two other couples. And between us, we had about. I had 10 kids at the table at a TGIF and I got the phone call that I'm out and I actually had to leave the table, throw up in the parking lot, go back in and pretend like everything was fine.

So, you know, through a lot of [00:47:00] trials and tribulations, I know we're taking a lot of time here, but one other story, when the chip first came out, it didn't work. That's not unusual for a semiconductor chip, but, um, you know, we were milestoned on that. We got like four million dollars to start, another nine and a half, you know, when we could prove that Chip technology, but it didn't work.

And I don't mean like it was not working. Well, I mean it was DOA I don't know if any Electrons were going in the damn thing, but we're coming out, right? and so we called a meeting and it's probably nine o'clock at night with the engineers and me everybody else was smart and You know, I was like, how many people don't think we're going to make it?

And of like the 20 people in the room, like I think 15 raised their hands. And honestly, Richard, I would have raised my hand, but I was a CEO. So I thought it would look bad. And so the next day we worked and we went out to a Bennigan's, which is no longer around either. I remember that. [00:48:00] And, uh, had some drinks and, you know, went home.

The next day we came up with a plan, right? We were going to do this. I called another nine o'clock meeting. We went through the whole plan and everything. I went to Benny in probably 10 or 1030 or something, so I got home at like, midnight. And so, I remember sitting down with my wife that night. I've had a couple beers.

Um, it's the only time I ever remember other than Christmas sitting in that living room. And I didn't really talk about work that much at home. We had Two, you know babies at the time. I just sat on the couch for like two hours and whined and cried Like I've ruined our lives. I'm so sorry, right? Like, you know, I've used all our savings and so on and so forth And you know, we have these two, you know, we have the two young kids I don't know if there's a third was on the way then and like I'm so, you know, I'm so sorry, right?

We did have three children by then and and so It was really tough, and I'm sure Katherine said something in those two hours, but I don't remember hearing her, right? Like, I [00:49:00] was just whining, I've ruined our lives, what have I done, right? Et cetera, et cetera. And at the end of that, she just said, you know what you need to do, so just go do it.

And, like, AuthenTec wouldn't have existed without her. Because if she had said, like, see if Harris will give you your job back. You know, we have kids there. I don't know why I was thinking, you know, it wasn't that early in our lives. The kids were going to school by then, uh, grammar schools, but, um, you know, it was, um, I would have probably quit.

But because of her, I stuck with it. And, you know, obviously we spun the chip. We were very experienced engineers and developers in the company. You don't hire kids right out of college to develop a new chip like that, right? They're very experienced, mixed signal, analog, a little digital. And, um, you know, it turned out to be a success.

Did you find a replacement for [00:50:00] the A, or was it a seed round or an A round? Oh, yeah, we did. It was, uh, fortunate because I said, look, you can't do this and blah, blah, blah. So one thing he told me on the phone was like, look, the way the term sheet is written, if we don't accept the other investors, you know, we don't have to do the deal.

Right. Right. And I'm like, well, wait a minute. The second largest investor, you wouldn't. Introduce me to right. So, um They're like, look, Scott, like, you're not going to win. So I'm sorry. We like you, you know, but we're focused more on the internet. This is about, like I said, an hour and a half before the internet fell apart.

Correct. Right. All the attention. So, you know, I started calling the other investors and it's like, you know, Bank of America thinks you're a low life, you know, whatever, right? Like, so you're not good enough to be in this round. And so one of the other ones, the second largest stood up and took the lead, put in a little bit more.

I had a couple of others that we had turned down that [00:51:00] I reached out to and brought back in and we were able to put the whole 13 and a half million dollars together in like two more weeks. That's good. So we got, obviously we got closed. So, the time that you spun this out of Harris, in Harris pumped in.

You said three million or three and a half of the 13 and a half. And you also bootstrapped. You added some of your own capital. I didn't have any capital, right? But I wasn't getting paid much, right? So I was going through my own money just to live just for right paycheck. Yeah. A lot of entrepreneurs and even people in gov con I talked to, it's like, that's one thing that they really don't forecast.

They can, they can look at the burn operations and the, this, whatever. But then it's like. Oh, yeah, I have to be paid, right? Well, look, you know, in my second K 4, I was putting in all the money. Catherine and I was our money, right? And so I wasn't getting paid. And, you know, when we went through some trials and tribulations, I often cut off my pay.

But I got paid a little, I don't remember what it was, but it wasn't near what I was making and kind of the [00:52:00] lifestyle, you know, that we had developed around us. So after that original seed, was it seed round or A round for? Well, back then you didn't have seed, pre seed, just pre pre seed, you know, it was like, you know, I see these A rounds and they're like, this guy got an A round of 50 million on 200 million pre, and it's like, wait a minute, they've already raised 50 million.

So back then. The first round was just called an A round. Okay, got it. And look, the thing about deep tech, which I watch people look at it now, is you're not doing a semiconductor company with somebody scrounging by developing a chip and getting their first customer like you can do in SAS. Like, it's really expensive.

It probably will cost you Today, 10 to 15 million to figure out if you have a technology, it's very capital. Right. And so it's the same thing for other things like AI and whatever. So, um, you know, you really the investors [00:53:00] there. Have to actually know their stuff. They have to understand tech or at least a couple of leads so that you can follow them.

But they really have to understand, really, two things count. Is this like, do I think this tech will work? And do I know enough to actually kind of make that knowing that it's a Crapshoot, but on the other side of that, like, are these the right people to actually make this happen? Mm hmm. And so do they have the, you know, technology gonads to to make it happen.

Mm hmm So in all how much capital did you raise? Well, that company was like 75 million dollars Which honestly used to be a lot of money, but now today it's like well, that was my a round At least for the big ones. So 75 total? 75 million. Yeah. And so we had good investors. We had Texas Instrument. We had Carlisle, right?

We had Sierra Ventures, which guy named Ben Yu there is like, you know, superstar, um, and a great mentor. Uh, and, you know, so well, there's a small, [00:54:00] you know, group, uh, top mark, you know, here that invested. So the only companies that existed in, in, um, uh, 1998 when we got our first money into 2000, that were still in existence by the time I started K4 Connect in 2013 or 2014, wherever it was, uh, were two, all the others were gone.

TI had gotten out of it while Carlyle, while we all know Carlyle, they had actually gotten rid of their venture fund and they focused completely on PE and other funds where Sierra Ventures and Top Mark Capital down in Florida and Sierra is of course in Silicon Valley. So they both invested in the second.

You know, company, but everybody else was gone. So I was like back talking to strangers. People, it's funny because people say, well, it must've been really easy the second time. It was easier to get a meeting because I had the kind of pedigree in the background. But as I told people, I got no as often, but from a higher class of investors, right?

Like, you They were brand names that said [00:55:00] no, but I got as many nos as, as the first time. And that's one thing as an entrepreneur you have to get used to, right? Like you're going to beg. Money from a lot of people to me. It's like the The person on the side of the road with a little cardboard sign will work for food or something.

Look, I know there's charlatans, like there's charlatans, but most of those folks are just really down on their luck. And, you know, can you imagine, you know, the loss of pride and everything else if you get down to the point where you're holding a card up? Well, if you can't do that, don't be an entrepreneur, right?

Because that person, like 98 percent of the cars drive by them and they avert their eyes. They, you know, on their phone, changing their radio, anything not to make eye contact with you. One and a half percent, you know, they roll down their window and they throw their beer can at you. They call you a low life scumbag.

They tell you to go get a job. And then half percent, they give you some money That's roughly the same number of [00:56:00] VCs you're going to talk to. And if you can't take the 98 percent that never get back to you, give you a lame excuse, whatever. And, uh, you'll never be an entrepreneur. What was the typical time frame between funding rounds?

Because now we call that operational burn. Like you have runways. So that was like we raised all that money between 98. And probably 2005. Okay. And then we went public in 07. So typically you give yourself about, what, 18 months of runway between fundings? Yeah, I mean, look, the key thing is not the time frame, it's the milestone.

So, have enough money, plus some, because you're wrong. Right. You'll need more money and it'll take you longer. Is to reach a milestone. Wherein you'll be able to raise more money for a higher valuation. It's not just that, you don't want to be 18 months, and although you've made a lot of progress, it's not a, you know, like fundable [00:57:00] progress, like where you can't show like, Something that the chip works that, uh, you have your first customers that your revenue is now five million A.

R. R. Instead of 500, 000, right? Like you have to show a measurable milestone because that's what's going to get you the higher valuation. Can you raise money 18 months later? Yes, but what vibration? Yeah, exactly. What were the milestones back then that they were looking for? Was it just customer traction or revenue?

So one of the big ones was, you know, for the first one was, was one to, you know, prove out the chip worked. And then, you know, uh, prove out that it worked as a fingerprint sensor. Mm hmm. And then have the first customers. And that's really what we did on the first 13 and a half million. After that, I don't think I can remember.

Although I do remember, um, our first business plans...and this is back in the day when you actually wrote a business plan. You know, I think are, you know, after like [00:58:00] five years, we were supposed to be slightly larger than Apple, you know, and we weren't. Right. Like, so, you know, you have this visions of grandeur that, um, you know, are supposed to happen a lot faster.

But if you look to that original business plan, you can see, like, our chip progress, our focus going into cell phones. All of that is spilled out. It just took, you know, longer than we thought. Right. Let me just, the point on that is sometimes the analogy I make, it's like, especially being here by the ocean, right?

It's, it's. It's being able to stay on the wave long enough for the wave to crest, right? So there's been a billion AI companies are using that term or technology companies around it, right? Or quantum computing or neural networks or whatever. All those things that go into AI today or its future that that have gone out of business because they weren't there when the wave crested, right?

And the [00:59:00] wave crested. With OpenAI. And then it was just, you know, a million people running to the beach, like jumping on those waves. Right, right. So how long did it take for you to have a successful chip and the fingerprint sensor to work? What is it? Two years? Um, so we had started it before we became a company, right?

Although we hadn't taped out or a long shot from taping out. And then, you know, when we did get it, we had just the fingerprint sensor, the sensing part, the antenna array, which was kind of the invention and all the other. Chips were off board. So we had that little sensor in a box with a board under it.

And then there was ribbon cables coming out of the back. This is like going back away. Ribbon cables going to a big box under the table usually. And then that was connected to a PC. Okay. And we took all of that and put it on Chip on one chip, and that's when we had a chip, and that one was big. It was like a [01:00:00] half inch by half inch was, you know, it's a 50 chip, right?

But we had the vision, really not in terms of just the chip, but the algorithms, right, to be able to use an exceedingly small piece of your fingerprint. Mm. To actually uniquely identify you. Mm. And it was our foundational, uh, which we called technology wise, true print ability to actually see through the outer layers of your skin and find points that, without going into detail, um, that would uniquely identify you, um, versus kind of the FBI way of taking a large fingerprint and kind of looking at various points as compared to the center.

I can remember, Was it the IBM ThinkPad? Right. Yeah, they had a fingerprint sensor where you had to scan your Yeah, so we did that for a while. And that was probably may have been our chip, right? I never liked the slide technology, right? We did it because we needed to sell, you know, product in the meantime.

Well, but our focus was always on And, you know, what, what became, [01:01:00] you know, smaller and smaller, the idea of that fingerprint sensor when you slide, right? So like when you're mapping, when you have a plane, a spy plane going up and mapping terrain, they're taking a lot of pictures and then they stitch all those pictures together.

So it was the same idea there. You swiped your finger, right? You took multiple images and then you stitch them all. So you would look like a big fingerprint, right? I never liked that idea. I thought ergonomically it was a horrible product, it was ugly, and, uh, you know, because you're looking right at the semiconductor device, which didn't naturally fit.

And I, I figured, like, when there was the financial downturn right after we went public, so, things were miserable then, too, you know, our, we got, Right. Our stock got hammered being a small cap like we were. Um, our, uh, revenues went down by like 20%, although we didn't lose any market share. But back then it was all about, um, you remember netbooks?

Everybody was talking [01:02:00] about netbooks and the high end PCs, which is where we were like. Nobody wanted a high end, right? Not quite nobody, but our revenues did go down by 80%. I'm sorry, 20%, and that's not good, right, when you're supposed to be growing. But, you know, we really started to focus on mobile a lot more, which we were doing pretty well in Japan on, which used to lead the world in mobile technologies decades ago.

And so we ended up, um, but the big issue was I couldn't see people putting that on a phone, which I considered. You know, very much like a piece of jewelry with the fingerprint sensor sticking out. So how do we put this under a cover? And that started with a whole invention process. Um, and I used to call engineers together, you know, 8 o'clock twice a week.

And 8 o'clock meeting for engineers was like the tension. Is, um, you know, just brainstorming. Ideas. I would throw out a lot of stupid ideas. [01:03:00] Like I'm fortunately kind of my job. Sometimes I'm not limited by intelligence because if I was smart enough, I would know you can't do the things I'm asking you to do.

But I'm not that smart. But that's why you're here. So like, I know it's not going to exactly be this, but how do we do something like this? And so, you know, the team really great people. They all many of them still work for Apple in Melbourne, Florida. Um, really we had 230 patents when we were acquired.

Right. Which is a lot for a little puke company. Yeah. I mean, but it was really hard to do. And there was a lot of invention and involved. And, um, but that, You know, led, eventually led to the, you know, Apple acquisition. So prior to going public, you raised 75 million. You were international. You had offices, you know.

In the Netherlands and Shanghai. Yeah. Without going into too much detail, how was that, operating in China It was great. Like, it was really an interesting place. [01:04:00] You know, there was a lot of changes back then. You know, it was very closed. You know, if you go back not long ago to the 80s, but the 90s and the 2000s like it was blossoming like everybody was a capitalist They may have been under communist rule But right, you know, everybody was and so we were with you know, Taiwan semiconductor Fortunately was our fab.

They had a big operation in Shanghai We had a good relationship and they actually gave us free Um, space in, in their headquarters and we ended up having like 20 engineers over there, 20 software engineers. Now the core of our IP was in the semiconductor and we kept all that in the U. S. But it was, you know, it was a great experience.

Other than, again, I won't break off, you know, I thought I had got kidnapped the first time I was in Shanghai and I was like Nobody will ever see me again, like, so, um, you know, when you're with a big company and you land in a strange place, it was my first time there, you know, somebody picks you up, right?

A salesperson or they, you know, make [01:05:00] arrangements or whatever. It was me, dude, like, and I had no idea what I was doing. And, um, it was really a funny story. Um, it was, you know, it was a really good, it was a really good experience. Yeah, I'm glad. So whose decision was it to go public? Was it the investors like Carlisle?

Because obviously PE, private equity, they have a time frame where they need to return capital. So it was the end of 2006 and there's a guy named Bob Grady who headed up. Carlisle Venture and also was the head of the National Venture Capital Association. He was the chairman of it at the time, and we were in their offices in San Francisco, which was the trans America.

Oh, yeah, I've been there. So we had a board meeting, right, went through the whole thing and went good. And Bob at the end says, you know, It feels to me like we ought to consider going public because the market's way up and I don't know how long that'll last And etc, etc, and he you know kind of gave this like we ought to consider going public It had [01:06:00] never once at least with me We're in front of a group, been discussed, right, going public.

So I was like, let me go back, think about it, uh, let me talk to some of the bankers I knew. And then we'll, um, let's convene a call in mid January and we'll talk about it. So we had a call in January and I said, look, let's plan on going. public, but let's hurry because our competitor was and had been working on it a long time, our chief competitor and who we eventually acquired.

And we, uh, we need to beat them to the market because whoever gets first to the market defines the market. 100%. So, um. I set a date, believe it or not, this is mid January of 07. I set a date to file by March 16th. So, why March 16th? Because it was my 50th birthday. And I thought it would be really wild to, like, file on my 50th birthday.

So, we worked our butts off. And great credit to our, uh, accounting [01:07:00] team led by Gary Larson. You know, by our president, Larry Cha Cha, right? We all worked our tail off to get ready. Like, who gets ready to go public. But it showed right that capability of our accounting like we had all come from big companies.

So like we knew how right accounts were supposed to be run. And so we had no issues. Um, uh, Sarbanes Oxley or any of the other rules that were all coming out. So we filed on March 16th and I remember that night that afternoon. Nobody in the company knew we kept it super secret. So we had a A beer party and, um, remember the old, um, Johnny Carson and he played a guy, uh, a Swami or whatever, right, fortune teller that had, you know, and he put three envelopes and it says what happened and then he'd open it was be a joke, right?

So I said, you know, what happened on March 16th, some date I looked up like things that happened on March 16th. So I don't remember what the first two were. [01:08:00] And then, you know, I said, what happened on March 16th? 2007 was my 50th birthday. And of course people were like, it's your birthday. I opened the envelope.

It's like, we filed to go public five minutes ago. Right? Like, and so everybody was like, you know, it was a great party. It was a good time. I went home and slept for like a week. I'm sure. Um, and then we were public by, um, the end of June. Okay. And it was, it was an amazing whirlwind and my three daughters, like the day we went public, uh, we opened the NASDAQ Stock Exchange and my three daughters actually, uh, rang the bell that morning.

Yeah, that's awesome. Right, which was a great thing to, to share with them. Yeah, I, I went to Wall Street. When was it? Maybe it was 2006, 7. Uh, we went to the New York Stock Exchange. And I got to see the opening bell, met some CNBC people, and just take a tour of the whole facility. It's really cool. Yeah. So I, you know, back then I was, you know, on Bloomberg and another bunch of TV [01:09:00] programs.

It was really a lot of fun. And then hell broke out, right? Like, I don't think people realized how bad things got in 08 and 09, where the first hour of our board meeting was, how much is our cash worth? Because all that cash had been invested in what we thought were overnight day instruments, which all sudden went to nothing.

So look, um, you can say what you want, but, um, you know, Look, it shouldn't have gotten to that point, but, um, the fact of the matter is there was some really heroic stuff to, that was done to kind of save the entire system because I really thought the system was going to nothing. Yeah. Backlog was worthless.

Like, it didn't matter if you had an order or not. And then, again, when you're trying to figure out, like, what cash can I get out of an account this week, right? And we had just gone public, so we had a lot of it, and it was still not able to. You know, you were wondering if you could make payroll just to, you know, turn things.

I can [01:10:00] remember back then the stock market would be down 800 points one day and 1, 200 points the next day. Yeah, our stock went, you know, we went out at like nine. Or something. So it wasn't a lot. We went up to like 14 at one point, but for about two minutes. Then it started to trade down. And then, you know, we had an announcement that we were going to miss quarter.

And, you know, our stock went to like 2. 5 bucks. Over a little bit of time, it dropped a lot. But, you know, we were down at 2. 5 bucks. It was, it was Like it was miserable, and I was supposed to retire a year after we went public all these times. I plan on retiring. Something happens, right? The good thing is, I'm not gonna have another job, so people don't have to worry as much that I might retire.

So when when did you retire from that? So I actually retired. So the company got acquired in 20 12. And I retired kind of the end of 2010 or early 2011. So Larry Chacho, who I mentioned earlier, we started the same day together in [01:11:00] 1980 at Harris Semiconductor and lived across the street from one another.

So we had a great relationship. He's one of the, he's a smart engineer, you know, ran the Harris Semiconductor Wireless Group kind of when they developed 802. 11. Had retired and then, uh, you know, very young and I convinced them to come back as our president with the idea of taking over for me as the CEO.

Because, you know, I was already burnt out and I'm an all in, I have to be an all in guy to make up for my lack of intelligence, right? So he, um, really didn't want to take over. You know, a year later because things were tough, the board didn't want me to leave. So I ended up staying on longer and then, uh, we were doing an acquisition and the board approached me about staying for a year and I was like, no way, like I'm just, I'm done.

So when we did the acquisition, Larry, uh, took over and, um, I was just on the board, but Larry and I, you know, spoke often, and he did it. I don't know if we would have been able to have been sold to Apple because it [01:12:00] was a long, arduous process that took a lot of patience. One thing I don't have a lot of, and Larry does, and I don't think that deal would have been done.

The truth is, like, we were merging two companies together. I don't think I could have done that either. I was pretty burnt out by then and I just couldn't keep on going. So when the board had approached me about staying for a year, I was just like, we won't do the acquisition. Like, I, I can't, I can't go any longer.

Right. I was burnt to a crisp. Right. Well, it's a huge milestone to be acquired by Apple and to go through any M& A process, whether you're purchasing or selling. It's to this day. Believe it or not, we are the only public company ever acquired by Apple. Right. Which, to me, is amazing, because they're a very acquisitive company.

Correct. But in the end of the day, they really bought our team and our technology. Now, usually they buy the tech, take a few of the top team members, and move them to Cupertino. Right. In our case, I think they realize, like, these guys know what they're doing, [01:13:00] right? And so they continue to work up there. I don't know on what.

Right. But they're, you know, super secretive. And I would never ask the question. But, you know, they kept the team in Melbourne, Florida. And so I think that was a real attribute to the quality of the team that we have. That's great. Right. So, so pivoting over to IOT for Retirement communities. Okay. Tell me a little bit about that.

Cause that's, that's a big switch. Yeah, it is. So, like I said, I, I said I would never start another company and I was on a trip to Rwanda making. The story's short, but I've been there a few times, uh, before, but, um, I just met this person that I thought was doing so much good in her life that, you know, I was embarrassed.

And I was doing things, like, you know, I was helping companies and had office hours, and I didn't ask for stock or money, it was just my way of giving back. I, you know, obviously, like many, you know, worked for some charities, [01:14:00] right? Did work. I felt I needed to do more. So I came back and, um, you know, spoke to Catherine, you know, what if we started another company really with the idea of using the company to serve others?

And it's for profit, right? As I always tell people, I look at it as margin funds mission. And so the idea then was Uh, a couple of weeks later, I got this note from my, uh, new co founder, the new smart guy in my life, Jonathan Gould, who I had worked with his company. And honestly, I met with him a few times and I didn't think much of the company.

But as I sat at their table, You know, offering them advice. I just kept thinking, the only thing of value in this entire company is that guy down there. Right. Jonathan Gould. And a few, you know, hadn't seen him in a while, and a few weeks after I got back from Rwanda, he, he texted me. He's like, you know, the company went under.

Would you be interested in starting a company? So we, we got together. We kind of worked on [01:15:00] ideas for six months. We took his base idea around IT and kind of expanded it to integrate. Kind of more things didn't really have a market Catherine. I were funding it got Stalled a little bit when I found out I had a brain tumor and it's hard to raise money when the CEO is a brain tumor So it got that fixed.

Right didn't make me any smarter, unfortunately, but the So, got back from that and then happened to have coffee with this guy who was introduced by a mutual friend. Uh, gentleman's name is Eric Braun. And, um, he was raising money for the homeless. He's an advocate for the homeless. So we met. We talked about it.

We ended up Donating, but to another group. But Eric, uh, he asked me what we did at the end. And I told him all these things that, you know, technology that would be a value to older adults if you could put it into one system, which was what, you know, we really do. [01:16:00] And so he said, Well, that'd be a really great product for me.

I have MS, honestly. I never thought of, like most tech people, I never thought of older adults or people living with disabilities. A week later, Jonathan and I had coffee with him. And, um, to really talk about it a little bit more. And he stopped me as I started. He's very articulate. Um, and he said, look, um, the reason I'm meeting with you guys today is just right now when I wake up in the morning, I figure I have a thousand good steps in my day and how I use those steps defines the quality of my life.

And you guys can make my life better. So on a, as I tell people, strictly personal level, if I felt called to start a company in Rwanda, which I did, I know it sounds strange, but I did, then I knew why. So I went home that night and I spoke to Catherine and it's like, Look, um, I think this is why I was called to start this company.

Let's pivot and focus on older adults. I know nothing about that market. Nobody will ever fund us. But I don't think God looks to us to spend 20 [01:17:00] percent of our wealth and if it doesn't work out, Go back to happy retirement. I want to go all in. I'm pretty sure I'm going to lose all our money and I'm going to have to get a regular job.

So honestly, looking back, I didn't, I don't know that I really meant that, but it actually just turned out, you know, it was turned out to be very difficult. Catherine and I put a lot of money into it. Obviously the company's still going, but we pivoted the whole company. The investors we had, I never gave an investment pitch.

Not one that I didn't start with. I was called on a trip to Rwanda and I knew why when I met this gentleman, you don't have to come to the mission the same way I did. Right? We all have different beliefs, but you have to come to the mission. Otherwise, I'm going to make your life miserable because this is how I'm driving the company.

So, um, there's a lot of mistakes I made along that way. Right? Obviously we COVID nearly killed us. We were doing quite well before that until Senior living operators shut down. Um, we're, you know, still going, the investors continue to be supportive, but it was a, you know, grueling three or four [01:18:00] years. You know, my first forecast for COVID would, you know, it was March of 2020.

You know, I planned it out saying this will all be gone by August. And I thought that was an exaggeration. Mm hmm. And while it was really its biggest impact on our economy was like a little over a year, it was a long tail and senior living just because of the, you know, population that they serve. Right.

But that's how I started the company. And, um, you know, I still believe that kind of mission orientation, not only for each of us serving others as individuals, but I actually think a corporation is a bringing together of People right to serve people that you could not serve on your own. And unfortunately, there's been an interpretation of the rules and pretty much set now that, you know, the company is there, you know, primarily focused on its Investors to make them as much money, you know, as possible, right?

There's companies that don't act like that, but, you know, many of them do, right? And it's a [01:19:00] very, it's the system. They're not bad people, right? Like the system is on three months and generating wealth and, you know, generational wealth and so on and so forth. So I think personally, uh, man, I don't ever say this in public, but, um, You know, capitalism is the best system there is.

There's like, no doubt about it. I've been to a lot of countries. I have 8 million frequent flyer miles, or 8 mil 8 million flyer miles over the years. I've seen every kind of system there is. Capitalism is the best. But I think it's really been hijacked in our own country for the benefit of too few.

Capitalism, in the end of the day, is a system that we decided To use to run this country, but it should be a system that has some level of, you know, equity. That doesn't mean everybody's the same. It's work, it's intelligence, it's so on and so forth. But, you know, we're just really leaving too many earnest, hardworking people behind.

And I think, you know, [01:20:00] one of the issues we had over the last few years is insulting them at the same time. And I think, you know, that gave rise to where we are, which now takes us to the other extreme. I've thought of, uh, one day I'll do it, starting a blog kind of like, you know, looking from the middle.

Which means pretty much everybody disagrees with me. Especially in today's paradigm. So, um, but anyway, look, you know, Life is nuanced. It's not 140 or X number of characters. It's not, you know, it is nuanced. That's what we look to. to help cope with work through the nuances, but unfortunately it's, you know, one extreme or the other, it seems like now.

So you're still a shareholder of the, Oh yeah, I'm a, you know, we're raising a small round right now. Catherine and I are participating in that through our little venture firm called first talent ventures. But, um, Yeah, I'm very, I'm [01:21:00] very supportive of the team, right? Jonathan, right? Mike Weller is now the CEO.

So I'm very supportive of both of them and, um, you know, believe that they continue to follow that mission. What are the expansion plans for? to, I guess, expand into other retirement communities or to add? Well, yeah, I mean, first off is, you know, get to a point where, you know, we've had a challenge, uh, with a group that, uh, I won't name now, but I.

But, you know, it looks like we're working through that. And then really, we kind of really focused down on a core capability of ourselves, which we call Fusion OS, which is this ability to integrate multiple systems into one. So when you go into a community that's using a hundred different technologies, you only have to do one integration.

And then that technology, right, can talk to all others. And so it's really, we have like 25 patents on it. So, um. Although it's all software. So [01:22:00] really focused down on that and look to expand on that. And then, uh, you know, that really can play to almost any other market. But right now we're, our core is in senior living.

Okay, great. What other technologies or companies, you mentioned your venture fund with you and Catherine, um, are you investing in other areas? Not yet, right? Like, so I've just really been. I have a few investments. It was really like, you know, what do we want to do? And so first talent, by the way, is actually based on the parable of the five talents, right?

So I know I interpret this wrong, right? So I'll probably get some stuff on this too. So, you know, the parable of the five talents is. You know, it's the, uh, whatever you're given to multiply that, right? So your faith should be multiplied. But, you know, the story goes, the parable goes, the first servant, you know, from the owner of the, uh, farm or plantation, whatever it was called, gave him five talents and, you know, and he turned it into ten.

And the second [01:23:00] guy got two and he turned it into four and they were both. You know, blessed. Right. And that's good. But the, the first talent guy, the one guy that got, he was afraid mm-hmm . And he buried it. Mm-hmm . And then, you know, only gave one talent back at the end of the timeframe, and he mm-hmm . You know, he, he got his, you know, I'm not, uh, paraphrasing, he got his butt kicked, you know, but I.

that empathy thing, I always felt bad for the one guy. And so my thought was, what can I do to, you know, I'm a big believer in capitalism, right? This idea of mission, or, uh, you know, margin funds mission. So how do I look to find and so originally, I thought, like, I'll call it one talent ventures, but that actually didn't sound very good.

Right, right. So, um, I called it first talent ventures. So how do I help, um, You know, those that are, uh, have been underserved. I know that's unpopular right now, but really have been underserved. And help rise them up. I'm a big believer in this, um, you know, this idea of, like, toxic charity or where charity [01:24:00] hurts.

In that they become dependent on it. I'll give a perfect example, right? We see that in our own country, dependency. But, um, if you look in, uh, like Rwanda. So people donate their clothes and they get shipped over to Rwanda and they're given out. All those shirts and jeans and everything that are given out free, they take jobs away from other people that could have been sewing clothes.

And so I worked with Hope International, right, which is a microfinance organization that fund women to go buy a sewing machine and start. Can you imagine if somebody like, you know, took all their used cars and just sent them to the U. S.? You know, and, and gave them away for free, it would ruin our industries, it would, and we do the same thing to other countries.

We're, we're trying to be nice by taking our used clothes and donating them, but it really is, in many ways, toxic. So, how do you, Raise up those people right by, you know, giving them a job, [01:25:00] investing in them, and then they employ more and they employ more and they employ more. Right. And so there's really the idea around first talent.

How do I go to those? How can I help go to those with, you know, Honestly, very little money, but you know, I want to make sure, and there's really three things that I've, um, kind of thought of, is just that whole idea, these are bigger things, but environmental stewardship, right, like, you know, in the Bible, God created Earth, and, uh, you know, we're supposed to take care of it, and we're doing a pretty, uh, crappy job, and, and so, you know, it's not about climate change and all that, you know, it's like, look, we generate a lot of trash.

We are, you know, horribly taking care of our world, and it's really, you know, we have a responsibility for caring for the blessing that we call Earth, and I don't think we're doing a very good job of it. And I think with time, right, on a practical level, that's the spiritual and [01:26:00] faith level, on a practical level, like There are problems, and um, I think with time those will become more and more.

The amount of trash we ship outside this country, right, to other countries is like, disgusting. But we don't see it, and yet we're good people, and we just need to, you know, pay more attention to that. I started thinking, you know, another one is the idea of responsible AI. AI is going to eat the world. And so how do we do that responsibly?

And then, you know, the third is just that wealth and income disparity. So people don't realize it. So I'll just give you one example. The average amount of money, these are rough numbers, they might be a year old or so now, but the average amount of money. that someone turning 65 has for retirement is 170, 000.

That's the average. Now, most people will go, well, that's not enough to kind of live a good life, right? Well, it's not. But that's the average. The median is 70, 000. So at the [01:27:00] 50 percentile, 50 percent of the people in our country are below 70, 000. There's probably, I think, 70 percent of our population lives below the average.

So when we're saying the average person is at X, well, you're really not talking about 50 and 50. You're probably talking about 70 and 30, right? Because at the wealthiest, it becomes so extreme. So there's an argument like people should be able to you know, uh, be as wealthy as, you know, they're mindless, but, you know, and people, you know, we'll talk about giving back.

I'm all for giving back as long as you didn't spend your whole life taking away on the backs of others. And the second thing is, is that that money creates power. And the only reason capitalism actually works and can work is the whole idea of supply and demand, right, and competition. And you're seeing competition fade more and more because whether it's family funds, the wealthiest, the biggest corporations, or private equity, [01:28:00] they're buying up all these companies.

You know, you even look at grocery stores or the food supply and you think there's multiple companies. They're owned by like three or four companies all with different brands. So when food prices went up, Because, you know, things, uh, uh, the war, right, uh, COVID, right, et cetera, et cetera, they went up. They normally would come down.

Normally, yeah. There is an excuse to raise prices, but there's no reason to really lower them because there's no competition. Many of those industries are really controlled by a few people. When there is a lot of competition, and there is competition, people fight for market share. That's right. There's no need to do that anymore.

Right. So those are three big things, but those are Like what I'm thinking about as I, you know, in the future, look to make investments. So outside of the ventures and the things you, um, you're very active in the community, which we, we met at UNC Wilmington at one of the Jim Roberts [01:29:00] discussions, right?

Which, which is really good. What other activities do you, do you do? Right. Uh, I actually, um, you know, I, Look, I had three doctor appointments this week. Like, I haven't had three doctor appointments in a year in my entire life. Well, I was going to ask you, you look really good. Like you, you obviously you're staying active.

Do you exercise a lot? Yeah, no, I exercise at least six days a week, right? You know, or mostly. Is it like weight training or? It's three days of weight training, presently two of running. Okay. Right. And then hot yoga. And the hardest. by far without a doubt is hot yoga. It's like near death. How often do you stay in there?

You said three days a week, an hour. It's an hour and 15 minutes. And so I'm pretty much dead after about five. Right. Um, I've been to some classes, you know, uh, it's Wilmington Yoga Center. They do a great job. Super friendly people. They don't kick me out of any of the classes, but [01:30:00] the first class I went in was a 60 minute class and I'm almost sure it was a Cirque du Soleil.

practice session, because these people were doing things that like were ungodly, like, there's no way that you can do that. Right. But you know, like, you shouldn't come to this class, right? They were helpful and nice. And, you know, so now I go to a different class, but only once a week. But I, you know, I do really enjoy it.

I do like running, but I have, you know, bad ankles. And now I have tendonitis, right, which is really limited my time in the gym. But I'm not a good like, sit down in like, Don't do anything person like give me exercises and stretches and everything. So it's slowly getting better. Well, it's having an effect.

I can tell. So you're doing a good job. Well, um, yeah, but, uh, you know, I do want to start playing golf. I, I joined a golf club, right? Although I'm not a full golf member yet, that should be coming up soon. Yeah. But right now the tendonitis, you know, is really [01:31:00] keeping me from doing that, but I do look forward to that.

But, um, You know, now if I look at my calendar during the week, I'm not really sure which day I will be, right? Um, and the thing is, you know, I don't do a lot. I mean, I love spending time with our grandchildren, you know. Um, but they have busy lives as well. Luckily, Catherine and I Get along exceedingly well, even all day long.

At least I get along with her and she tolerates me, I would say. And, you know, we're building a house, right? So, right now we're only a few months from moving in and so there's a lot going on, you know, with that. Unlike past houses, you know, I'm a little more active on this one. Good, good. So, this has been a wonderful discussion and I really appreciate you.

taking the time and opportunity to share your vision and your story. I'm inspired just by listening to some of these things. Well, you'll be the only one. I doubt that. I doubt that. It would be [01:32:00] interesting, uh, you know, any feedback I get on our discussions earlier on. But it really all, to me, circles around faith, and it really circles around You know, the Sermon on the Mount, right?

I know a lot of atheists. And just because, you know, I'm in tech and they're good people, right? Like every one of them, at least that I know, believe in something greater than themselves. And they may not call it the same thing as I do. And I often think that there may be more negative to religion than they are necessarily faith.

The thing I always kind of talk about is, Right. Just read the Sermon on the Mount and then from there go to the, you know, the full Gospels. And, um, you know, really in the end of the day, if you think about it, the Old Testament, right, and the Torah, you know, they had, what, 631 rules and, you know, and. People came up with a lot more after that.

And, and Jesus really just said there's really only two rules. Love God and love one another. [01:33:00] And I think on the second, like, we're not doing a particularly great job. Right. Now it doesn't mean all love's the same. I don't love my wife the same way I love my children the same way, you know, I love my friends or the people in the community or the world.

But, um, I do care for them. And, uh, you know, I believe that we're all Not to get too religious, but you know, I do believe that we're all brothers and sisters in Christ and we are all by definition, right? At least my own children of God. So whether you believe in God or you whether you believe in Jesus, I know that you're my brother.

in Christ, and I know you're like me, a child of God, and I should treat you that way. Amen to that. Not that I always do, by the way. But I often apologize. Well, thank you again. I really appreciate this. It's been a great discussion. Alright. Good luck with the construction. Yeah, thanks. Amplified CEO is produced by [01:34:00] Topsel Insider. This episode is edited by Nomadic Orca and sponsored by Cape Fear Ventures. For more information about Amplified CEO, Richard Stroupe, or Cape Fear Ventures, please contact Christa at 910-800-0111 or christa@topsailinsider.com.